johnny Posted April 2, 2002 Posted April 2, 2002 Fred was a mountie. Go read Challenge of the North Cascades before you spew forth...... He learned to climb rather quickly and went on some of his early highballs with his instructors. Of course he moved away from them, they are a teaching tool not a long term, high energy, exploratory network of climbers. Difference is likely that there were probably 25 mounties in Seattle in 1935 and not 2500......... Never joined 'em myself. I probably would have if I had not been lucky to have my father drag me all over the cascades while I was growing up. Not everyone has that opportunity. They call it the BASIC course for a reason: you learn the basics and move on from there, some of my best partners have been through the course. They learned how to tie knots and then removed the name tag from their helmet....... To those who complain about the crags being covered in topropes, what the hell are you doing there in the first place? There is a big world out there with many options available for the "experienced" climber. I take my kids to Pilot Mountain here in NC (a cheesy little toprope area) because it is easy and convenient but some of the hordes at this VERY CROWDED PLACE just plain scare me with their inexperience. When I want to get MY rocks off I go to Moore's Wall. Steepest, scariest, diamond hard rock I ever saw and I have yet to see more than a handfull of people there, even on a good weekend. Moral: don't like crowds, then take a little walk, they usually thin out pretty quick. my $.02 Quote
RURP Posted April 2, 2002 Posted April 2, 2002 This is RURP. Ya, Johnny. You don't live there. You don't have to deal with these Mountaineers every weekend. And guess what? Many (most?) of them don't move on. The Mountaineers is the core of their social life and that is what they do. You can always say to go to some other more remote mountains to avoid them, but I have friends and family who also like to visit the easier and closer crags. Face it, the Mountaineers are problematic.RURP has spoken. Quote
rayborbon Posted April 2, 2002 Posted April 2, 2002 RURP, YOu are fucking hilarious and often right on target. I definitely know who you are now! Keep it up Cheers. Quote
Dru Posted April 2, 2002 Posted April 2, 2002 quote: Originally posted by rayborbon: Fred Beckey is\was a mountaineer so shut up I'm a mountaineer but not a Mountaineer Beckey was a Boy Scout too. And one time, at band camp... Quote
Dru Posted April 2, 2002 Posted April 2, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Dru: I'm a mountaineer but not a Mountaineer Beckey was a Boy Scout too. And one time, at band camp... Oh wait, I changed my mind. I'm an ALPINIST now. Just like Mark Twight. Except Im not XTREEEEEM! Quote
rayborbon Posted April 2, 2002 Posted April 2, 2002 quote: Originally posted by mikeadam: Or are you XXXtreme if you spray GU? I dont know let's ask Rachel Babkirk Quote
mikeadam Posted April 2, 2002 Posted April 2, 2002 Why's everyone always talking about MY girlfriend??? Hey Borbon remember that blonde I conned into skipping her last weekend of rock with the mountaineers and then we ditched her to go climbing? She flunked out due to non participation. That's my contribution to the commmunity. One less mountaineer out there...let's dialog on that one.... Quote
rayborbon Posted April 2, 2002 Posted April 2, 2002 quote: Originally posted by mikeadam: Why's everyone always talking about MY girlfriend??? Hey Borbon remember that blonde I conned into skipping her last weekend of rock with the mountaineers and then we ditched her to go climbing? She flunked out due to non participation. That's my contribution to the commmunity. One less mountaineer out there...let's dialog on that one.... So true I remember that psycho One less Mountaineer! Quote
Dru Posted April 2, 2002 Posted April 2, 2002 GU is not merely Extreme. GU is FUEL FOR LIVING ON THE EDGE. Damn I should switch careers and go to work for the ad industry! Quote
mikeadam Posted April 2, 2002 Posted April 2, 2002 I heard the porn industry is hiring. I just hear things that's all I'm saying... Quote
Dru Posted April 2, 2002 Posted April 2, 2002 Izzat entertainment or service industry, i guess it depends if you are producer or consumer? Quote
mtngrrrl Posted April 3, 2002 Posted April 3, 2002 Um, back to the issue... my SO and I recently moved to Seattle and joined the Mountaineers. OK, I've admitted it. I'm out. As far as I can tell, they have a good reputation outside of the PNW due to all the work of the Mountaineers Books. Oh, and Beckey adds to the allure. Now that I'm a capital-M, Mountaineer and I have a card to prove it, I have seriously mixed feelings about the group. Our first Mountaineering adventure was "Basic Climbing Equivalency". As moderately experienced climber types (I feel so unhumble to say that), this seemed like the thing to do. We marched like brave soldiers to the Camp Long confines to show our stuff. Even though I detest the bowline (and the freakin' bowline on a bight which a Mountaineer is REQUIRED to use when roping up on a glacier), I performed all the tricks on the tick list. However, I argued in favor of the butterfly knot for glacier ropes and even taught my "instructors" how to rappel with the munter hitch. (Heh-heh, thought it couldn't be done... ta da! Take that, caribiner break!) My "leaders" skeptically eyed my orange plastic Petzl pully (read: light), but when I slipped an ATC into the Z-system to prevent the prusick from jamming things up, eyebrows were raised. However, even after going over my (ugh) climbing resume, and discussing my alpine and glacier experiences which aren't too shabby, but certainly not Mark-Twight-extreme, one of my "leaders" said something to the effect of, "Well, I'm sure you're an excellent rock climber and all, but a basic equivalent is supposed to be more well rounded." Ahem. I was taken aback and a little mystified. After thinking it over, I feel he made that blind assessment based on my age. Or at least his perception of my age. I mean we just finished talking about the non-rock, higher altitude peaks I've done, and this was his response? I guess I should be flattered that he thought I was part of the pusher crowd. But perhaps he was just laying the groundwork because it seemed to me that the whole equivalency exercise was geared to hold people back. I failed on navigation. OK, so I'm not Columbus with a compass, but I did OK, especially considering there was a flaw on the worksheet. (Couldn't you guys get that figured out ahead of time?) I also tend to work a little slower with a map and compass, so I was often still working when the engineers in my group were shouting out their answers. The kicker, though, is my SO's experience. First, his "instructor" insisted that he keep his helmet on while sitting at a picnic table filling out a form because the day was supposed to be a simulation of a true day in the mountains. When my SO asked why the instructor wasn't wearing his helmet, the response was "because I'm in charge." Hmmmm. I guess simulated rockfall doesn't hit the people in charge. Suffice it to say, tension increased throughout the day. When time rolled around for setting up their Z-system, his group of gumby "leaders" failed to recognize the system and said it was wrong. Hello? Can you see the Z? They had to call over the guy in charge of this shindig to confirm that yes, indeed, it was a Z-system. Nonetheless, my SO failed this portion of the test. We still don't understand why. His "instructors" were basic grads from the previous year, and given their level of knowledge and frighteningly superior attitudes, neither one is welcome on our rope. Since I realized that I would have to do navigation, conservation and MOFA before going on to the capital-I, Intermediate level AND the fact that I already lead climbs on my own that they Mountaineers won't even LET me lead, I'm a tad soured on the whole thing. I have experience teaching climbing and working with beginners, and I was motivated to continue along these lines with a new club. Plus, I freely admit that there's always plenty to learn and I would enjoy learning from folks who have more experience and knowledge. But there's got to be some give and take. I got to talking with another Mountaineer higher-up from a different committee about my frustrations. His basic word was that if I wanted to give my energy to a group, the climbers clearly weren't right for me. They have a "That's the way we've always done it and that's the way it will always be done" mentality. Anyway, we went on to try out the SKI Mountaineers. They're a fun group. Much more easy going and far less rigid though still safe and confidence inspiring. The instruction was uneven, but I got some good information out of the course. I'll also take MOFA because I'm lacking in that arena. In the meantime, I've met some Basic Climbing grads and it frightens me to think that they could be teaching folks. I also dislike the way the Basic Climbing course churns robots out who think that the Mountaineers way is THE way to do things and terrible consequences are imminent if you're only packing 5 essentials. By the way, a pal of mine is taking the Boeing-Mountie course and an "instructor" said he carries a can of dog food as his extra-extra food to ensure that he only eats it in case of a true emergency. I have nothing more to add since that about sums things up, if you ask me. Quote
specialed Posted April 3, 2002 Posted April 3, 2002 Adult Gu Products: Glo-in-the-dark GuRibbed for her pleasure GuVibrating GuBlow-up GuExtra sensitive Gu and my fav: Gu-Lube Quote
Dru Posted April 3, 2002 Posted April 3, 2002 quote: Originally posted by specialed: Adult Gu Products:Glo-in-the-dark GuRibbed for her pleasure GuVibrating GuBlow-up GuExtra sensitive Gu and my fav: Gu-Lube Gu with nonoxynl-9??? Quote
Dru Posted April 3, 2002 Posted April 3, 2002 Sounds like the 1960's Appalachian Mountain Club. We must be the Vulgarians then Quote
Country_Jake Posted April 3, 2002 Posted April 3, 2002 I got a blowline for ya! oh excuse me a bowline...sorry... I don't have to deal with these guy for one, but it sounds like all of you that do need to get together and ask them to not hog the rock, or only to climb during sertain times of the day, write them a buch of letters or something... let them know that they are pisssing off the other climbers in the area... If the still don't listen, then Its on mother F@#%er, every one get to gether.... get up there before they do and spend all day on the rock, not allowing them to climb where they wont to climb, after a few day of their own medicen they might get the hint... Quote
mtngrrrl Posted April 3, 2002 Posted April 3, 2002 quote: Originally posted by mtngrrrl: By the way, a pal of mine is taking the Boeing-Mountie course and an "instructor" said he carries a can of dog food as his extra-extra food to ensure that he only eats it in case of a true emergency. I have nothing more to add since that about sums things up, if you ask me. Sorry folks, I am misinformed. I thought the "BoeAlps" were taught by the Mountaineers, but I've been informed this is not correct. Seattle newbie, what can I say? Quote
Big_Wall_Betty Posted April 3, 2002 Posted April 3, 2002 It is my understanding that Fred Beckey has an honorary membership in the Mountaineers...ie they inducted him. Maybe with his permission, but I don't think he was really part of them. Betty has spoken. Quote
MysticNacho Posted April 3, 2002 Posted April 3, 2002 Dude! Big Wall Betty and RURP are a match made in heaven! Quote
specialed Posted April 3, 2002 Posted April 3, 2002 quote: Originally posted by MysticNacho: Dude! Big Wall Betty and RURP are a match made in heaven! Don't believe the hype. They're the same person. Quote
Country_Jake Posted April 3, 2002 Posted April 3, 2002 Never had any real run-ins with the Mazamas, they as bad as the mountiners sound.... criky if so then I wont nothing to do with them... Quote
allthumbs Posted April 3, 2002 Posted April 3, 2002 Somebody ought to raise the danger flag on the mountaineers if they're incompetent. That's just flippin' wrong. Maybe a lawsuit or two would weed out the trash. Quote
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