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Blake

Connecting to the rock

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Ok, so this sounds stupid and obvious, and whatnot, but of well. How do you actually connect your protection to rock? (stoppers, cams, hexes, other stuff I heard but don't know what it is) I mean I understand an old fashioned Piton, drive it into a crack in the rock, connect to biner/rope or with something like an ice-screw, the name explains it, but how do you protect a pitch on a rock face? shocked.gif

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The Electromagnetic Force

This is the force which exists between all particles which have an electric charge. For example, electrons (negative charge) bind with nucleus of an atom, due to the presence of protons (positive charge). The force is long range, in principle extending over infinite distance. However, the strength can quickly diminishes due to shielding effect. Many everyday experiences such as friction and air resistance are due to this force. This is also the resistant force that we feel, for example, when pressing our palm against a wall. This is originated from the fact that no two atoms can occupy the same space. However, its strength is about 100 times weaker within the range of 1 fm, where the strong force dominates. But because there is no shielding within the nucleus, the force can be cumulative and can compete with the strong force. This competition determines the stability structure of nuclei.

 

emfor.gif

 

 

Hope that clears things up for you Blake!

wave.gif

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Modern passive pro also utilizes the cracks,holes,features,etc. in the rock,but doesn't require hammering(other than perhaps using a hammer to tap or"set" a stopper or hex).As availabilty of natural rock features decreases,hooks,bashies,crackers,peckers and rurps come into play;find out what these are.On completely blank featureless rock,holes are drilled and expansion bolts or glued bolts are used,and bolts are also used for permanent anchors.There are many excellent books which deal with what the great Doug Robinson once called "The Whole Natural Art of Protection",which was the title of a seminal essay he wrote for the Chouinard catalog of 1973.You may still be able to find old copies of 'Basic Rockcraft' and 'Advanced Rockcraft' by Royal Robbins in used bookstores.The Falcon series of books on climbing has some good titles including 2 on "Climbing Anchors" by John Long,and you might look for one called "So How Do They Get the Rope Up There Anyway?".And the old standby,now new and well updated,is "Mountaineering;The Freedom of the Hills"pub. by the Mountaineers.7th Edition.another really good book is "Traditional Lead climbing:Surviving the Learning years" by Heidi Pesterfield.Pick these up or find 'em at the library,get to readin'.It's all there;go to a climbing shop,Pro Mountain Sports,Marmot Works,REI,Mountain Shop,etc., look at the gear,ask questions,ask to handle the biners and wires and cams,maybe buy a few basic items ,take 'em out to a practice area or even a building and see how they work,get drawn into it and maybe,the next thing you know you'll find yourself several hundred feet off the ground just digging it with a great big stupid grin on your face. And about asking stupid questions?Never,Ever!!be the least bit hesitant or afraid to ask a question,no matter how ignorant or stupid it may seem.I had a grade school teacher who used to tell us,it's better to look stupid for 5 minutes,than to remain ignorant for the rest of your life;or even for another 10 minutes for that matter.Good on ya,mate;and good luck and good climbing;hope to see you out there. wink.gifbigdrink.gifcool.giffruit.gifthumbs_up.gifwave.gif

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Real basic like cause I wanna go to bed...

 

Stoppers and hexes are chunks of metal strung on a cord or wire. You put the chunk behind a constriction in a crack, then attach the rope to the cord or wire. The "chunks" are shaped so they actually hold pretty well even behind some types of very slight constrictions.

 

Cams are more complicated, but they are also placed in cracks. They push out on the sides of the crack to hold themselves in the crack, so they'll work for parallel-sided cracks.

 

I'll bet you can find some good pictorial examples or at least better descriptions on the web. Tradgirl.com might be a good place to start.

 

Time for yellowsleep.gif.

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Alpinfox said:

The Electromagnetic Force

This is the force which exists between all particles which have an electric charge. For example, electrons (negative charge) bind with nucleus of an atom, due to the presence of protons (positive charge). The force is long range, in principle extending over infinite distance. However, the strength can quickly diminishes due to shielding effect. Many everyday experiences such as friction and air resistance are due to this force. This is also the resistant force that we feel, for example, when pressing our palm against a wall. This is originated from the fact that no two atoms can occupy the same space. However, its strength is about 100 times weaker within the range of 1 fm, where the strong force dominates. But because there is no shielding within the nucleus, the force can be cumulative and can compete with the strong force. This competition determines the stability structure of nuclei.

 

emfor.gif

 

 

Hope that clears things up for you Blake!

wave.gif

 

Wow,Cosmic.(Well,yeah...)I am at One with the Universe....

 

"Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain"

-the Wizard of Oz

---------------------------------------------------------

"A perfection of means,and confusion of aims,seems to be our main problem."

-Albert Einstein cantfocus.gifconfused.gifyelrotflmao.gif

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I apologize for my flippant response Blake. I thought you were kidding.

 

ChucK is right on with his basic description.

 

I searched around on the web a bit to try and find some nice pictures of stoppers and hexes behind constrictions in rock cracks, but didn't have much luck. Since pictures will probably be the most informative thing in this case (except hands-on experience of course), I would recommend picking up one of the books Mtguide recommends.

 

Cheers,

-AF

 

 

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Don't understimate Van der Waals attraction. It's what makes your sticky rubber shoes work so well. It what insects use to walk on ceilings.

 

So Blake, come clean, were you serious or trolling?

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Alpinfox said:

The Electromagnetic Force

<snip>

Many everyday experiences such as friction and air resistance are due to this force. <snip>

 

aren't these really the same thing, i.e. air resistance is just friction between you/your airplane/etc and the air?

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so if there aren't little cracks and fissures in the rock face, you have to drill holes and place bolts for protection? hellno3d.gif

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Some very basic research seems like it would help here. I am amenable to the noobs, but really.... hellno3d.gif

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Blake said:

so if there aren't little cracks and fissures in the rock face, you have to drill holes and place bolts for protection? hellno3d.gif

 

Which can be difficult while you're trying to balance in a precarious stance. This kind of adventure isn't so popular with many of today's climbers, so they start at the top of the cliff and slide down a rope, stopping ever so often to drill the holes and set the bolts. They then go to the bottom of the cliff and begin climbing up. The shiny bolt hangers serve two purposes. Firstly, they mark the trail so that nonbody gets lost. Secondly, today's climber finds them to be kind of attractive, and so he is enticed into leaving the relative safety of having a bolt by his shoulders and into the bold frontier of climbing until that same bolt is by his knees. At that point, he gets to clip the next bolt at helmet level and he may decide to lean back on the rope for a little rest while he admires that shiny little beauty.

 

I hope this has helped.

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pope said:

Blake said:

so if there aren't little cracks and fissures in the rock face, you have to drill holes and place bolts for protection? hellno3d.gif

 

Which can be difficult while you're trying to balance in a precarious stance. This kind of adventure isn't so popular with many of today's climbers, so they start at the top of the cliff and slide down a rope, stopping ever so often to drill the holes and set the bolts. They then go to the bottom of the cliff and begin climbing up. The shiny bolt hangers serve two purposes. Firstly, they mark the trail so that nonbody gets lost. Secondly, today's climber finds them to be kind of attractive, and so he is enticed into leaving the relative safety of having a bolt by his shoulders and into the bold frontier of climbing until that same bolt is by his knees. At that point, he gets to clip the next bolt at helmet level and he may decide to lean back on the rope for a little rest while he admires that shiny little beauty.

 

I hope this has helped.

 

Here we go again. This is SO HEADED FOR SPRAY rolleyes.gif

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pope said:

Blake said:

so if there aren't little cracks and fissures in the rock face, you have to drill holes and place bolts for protection? hellno3d.gif

 

Which can be difficult while you're trying to balance in a precarious stance. This kind of adventure isn't so popular with many of today's climbers, so they start at the top of the cliff and slide down a rope, stopping ever so often to drill the holes and set the bolts. They then go to the bottom of the cliff and begin climbing up. The shiny bolt hangers serve two purposes. Firstly, they mark the trail so that nonbody gets lost. Secondly, today's climber finds them to be kind of attractive, and so he is enticed into leaving the relative safety of having a bolt by his shoulders and into the bold frontier of climbing until that same bolt is by his knees. At that point, he gets to clip the next bolt at helmet level and he may decide to lean back on the rope for a little rest while he admires that shiny little beauty.

 

I hope this has helped.

 

phaquin precious! yelrotflmao.gifyellaf.gifbigdrink.gif

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I'd skip the bolts for now Blake. As you picked up cracks and such are easy to connect to. There is a whole pocket full of other little tricks to go along with them.

Puttin in a bolt sounds easy until you stand on the side of a rock and tap away or drag a power drill up there. Better off climbin somebody elses work till you get a little more adept with the climbin. Find someone who will climb with a newbie is a good idea. Hang out, try a bunch a stuff to get the basics, then start followin them up some rocks so you can see what they did and build your own little bag of tricks. By the way get real good at belayin, if you can't belay your not gunna find any partners. smile.gif

If your anywhere near pubclubs that are posted on here comeon out and hang a little and get to know some folks. Their freindly (pretty near as twisted in person as on the forum) and only bite sometimes. You may even get response to a post lookin for a partner, It's a good idea to say right up front your new and lookin for help. I don't mind helpin sometimes but I hate gettin surprised by a newbie thats posein.

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Thanks very much to you, and the others who helped clear this up. Yeah, in terms of technical rock and ice/glacier climbing I'm a newbie. I've got qutie a bit of backpacking and scrambling experience, just looking to take my adventuring to a different level and gain new skills. I'd check out the PDX pub club sometimes, but the 21+ I'm assuming applies to said "pub" would keep me out. I'm contemplating the mazamas class this winter, but $300! ouch.

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scott_harpell said:

pope said:

Blake said:

so if there aren't little cracks and fissures in the rock face, you have to drill holes and place bolts for protection? hellno3d.gif

 

Which can be difficult while you're trying to balance in a precarious stance. This kind of adventure isn't so popular with many of today's climbers, so they start at the top of the cliff and slide down a rope, stopping ever so often to drill the holes and set the bolts. They then go to the bottom of the cliff and begin climbing up. The shiny bolt hangers serve two purposes. Firstly, they mark the trail so that nonbody gets lost. Secondly, today's climber finds them to be kind of attractive, and so he is enticed into leaving the relative safety of having a bolt by his shoulders and into the bold frontier of climbing until that same bolt is by his knees. At that point, he gets to clip the next bolt at helmet level and he may decide to lean back on the rope for a little rest while he admires that shiny little beauty.

 

I hope this has helped.

 

phaquin precious! yelrotflmao.gifyellaf.gifbigdrink.gif

fuggin' stoopud... moon.gif

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RuMR said:

scott_harpell said:

pope said:

Blake said:

so if there aren't little cracks and fissures in the rock face, you have to drill holes and place bolts for protection? hellno3d.gif

 

Which can be difficult while you're trying to balance in a precarious stance. This kind of adventure isn't so popular with many of today's climbers, so they start at the top of the cliff and slide down a rope, stopping ever so often to drill the holes and set the bolts. They then go to the bottom of the cliff and begin climbing up. The shiny bolt hangers serve two purposes. Firstly, they mark the trail so that nonbody gets lost. Secondly, today's climber finds them to be kind of attractive, and so he is enticed into leaving the relative safety of having a bolt by his shoulders and into the bold frontier of climbing until that same bolt is by his knees. At that point, he gets to clip the next bolt at helmet level and he may decide to lean back on the rope for a little rest while he admires that shiny little beauty.

 

I hope this has helped.

 

phaquin precious! yelrotflmao.gifyellaf.gifbigdrink.gif

fuggin' stoopud... moon.gif

 

DSCN5002.JPG

 

A bolt by my foot and my knee and my shoulder,

a goofy big pad that I tote to the boulders.

Lycra that matches my colorful slings,

these are a few of my sport climbin' things!

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Stinky laderhosen, cowbells that jingle.

Vaccuous stares from weeks in the hills

These are a few of my favorite

trad-climbing things

 

wave.gif

 

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Hey these are cool lyrics. They should be split out as a separate thread in the Climbing Forum. Here's my weak contribution.

 

When the frost bites

When the ice melts

When I'm out of shape

I simply remember my shiny new gear

And then I just feel so rad

Edited by catbirdseat

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catbirdseat said:

Hey these are cool lyrics. They should be split out as a separate thread in the Climbing Forum.

yo yo.

what he say.

make rhyme today.

even if sound gay.

so whatever like

gimme da mic

touchdown spike

and score! rolleyes.gif

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