Skin width question

[dryad]

I heard a couple of different schools of thought regarding the best skin width for your skis, and I was wondering what y'all use. Many folks go for the wall-to-wall carpeting approach for maximum climbing power. Others, on the other hand, think the skins should only be as wide as the narrowest part of your skis for better glide. Some go as far as to cut a skin in half lengthwise so there is just a thin strip running down the middle of the ski. This last option seems a bit excessive to me, since if you're that concerned about increasing glide and if the terrain you're on is mellow enough that you can go up with just half-width skins, you'd be better off just using waxless backcountry skis. But the second option seems like a decent compromise. Also, considering my (rather meager) skill level, I figure that I really wouldn't want to try to go down any slope that requires wall-to-wall carpeting to go up.

[jordop]

The only situation in which wall-to-wall is not preferable is if you're gonna be on pretty easy or groomed terrain. That being said, you can get by with narrow skins on a lot of stuff, but it doesn't take really nasty terrain to make wall-to-wall, as you put it, preferable. Spring melt/freeze will make you wish for as much skin as possible on even moderate slopes.

[E-rock]

Slipping on a climb with narrow skins wastes MUCH more energy than a wider skin wastes by slowing down your glide (which is imperceptible anyway). Go 1/2 cm narrower than the width of your skis so that you don't have to put them on perfectly in order to avoid covering the edges.

[lI1|1!]

shaped skins

[b-rock]

I'll agree on the shaped skins, especially now that the trend is towards shorter, fatter skis.

[russ]

dryad said:

Also, considering my (rather meager) skill level, I figure that I really wouldn't want to try to go down any slope that requires wall-to-wall carpeting to go up.

 

Yeah, but soon you'll be past that stage and you'll be glad have skins that will continue to work for you.

[scot'teryx]

shape them yourself, that is the best way, leave no board exposed!!!! Especially for icy traverses

[Dustin_B]

I just wrote up a similar question/post with the exact same title and was about to post it then I found this one! What a coincidence!! So I'll just post part of my original question now.

 

I just bought my first pair of BC skis (profile is 107 / 75 / 98 mm). From what I have read on Black Diamond's website, you want 3mm of each ski edge showing. So you buy a skin as wide as the widest point of the ski and trim the rest. But it seems to me that it would be fine for me to buy a 100 mm skin, which would leave 3.5 mm of edge showing at the tip, and I would cut the rest down. Is this standard practice to buy a little narrower skin if appropriate? Is it easy to trim the skin?

 

Who makes these shaped skins and where can I buy them?

 

Also from what I have read, it seems like I can't go wrong with the BD ClipFix skin?

 

Thanks.

 

[b-rock]

Dustin_B said:

But it seems to me that it would be fine for me to buy a 100 mm skin, which would leave 3.5 mm of edge showing at the tip, and I would cut the rest down. Is this standard practice to buy a little narrower skin if appropriate? Is it easy to trim the skin?

 

Sure, wider skins are more expensive, so you can buy a width a bit less than the widest ski measurement. But it probably won't save you that much.

 

Very easy to trim yourself, BD Ascentions come with instructions.

[Scott_J]

I like 'em wide unless it’s hard as fucking concrete then I go for the narrower profile. If ya got only money for one pair buy a compromise.

[cj001f]

sisu_suomi said:

I like 'em wide unless it’s hard as fucking concrete then I go for the narrower profile. If ya got only money for one pair buy a compromise.

And buy the Glidelite type adjustment system that easily adjusts for different lengths.

[scot'teryx]

Clipfix sux bad. But that is only from my personal experience

Others like them

The metal clip on the back actually snapped on me once, I don't use those anymore, even though BD sent me a new clip

[Dave_Schuldt]

Have a shop trim them for you. Remember one wrong cut and your hosed.

My advice on other skin issues.

Don't use the rubber strechy thing on the tip, They break and also make it harder to get through tree wells and other dips because they catch.

I don't use tail hooks, just cut it off 1 inch short of the tail then round the corners. I have only had them peel twice in 6 years.

Get glop stopper! Snow sticking to the skins sucks.

Get a can of glue so you can add more to bare spots

Wax your skis often so the skin glue doesn't stay on when you peel the skins off.

When going downhill stuff skins in your shirt mext to your skin. Yes they are cold and you will look funny but when your skins peel you will be stopped cold.

 

[cj001f]

Dave_Schuldt said:

Have a shop trim them for you. Remember one wrong cut and your hosed.

Dude. Size skins for length (follow directions!) Stick skins to skis. Use trim tool (supplied with new skins). Not Rocket Science - and alot less pain than regluing skins.

 

Tail hooks are nice as the glue starts to go on skins. And I've better luck taking the skins off with the skis on, with rubber tip stretcher.

[cracked]

Dave_Schuldt said:

Have a shop trim them for you. Remember one wrong cut and your hosed.

 

Bullshit, I trimmed my first pair of shaped skins a few weeks ago, it's dead easy. I've used the TTP attachment, but the disadvantage is that you can kick your skin off. I'm using Lou Dawson's mod right now.

[Dave_Schuldt]

Didn't relize there was a tool for trimming.

[pindude]

Just about anything sharp works, including your friendly, orange-handled Fiskars scissors.

 

I go for wide as possible, with rubber tip attachment AND tail-fix. Without tail-fix and with powder over here (inter-mountain), even with good glue, it's not unusual to see others' skins fall off 6x in 2 hours.

[Roger]

Definitely go wall-to-wall. There just aren't very many good reasons not to, and sticking on steep stuff is fun.

 

I bought a new set of the BD clip fix skins last year, and love 'em. I've had no problems, and it's a way better setup than the rubber tip because you can't kick one off with your other ski while skinning. Dealing with a kicked-off skin on a steep icy slope is a big drag. cj is right, though, that the clip fix is a bit harder to take off without removing your skis, but with some practice it will go. And hey, when you get to the top you probably want to take a break anyway...

[markws]

I've used skins with tail clips and I've had to go w/o when my skis were too long for the skins. In the Cascades and Coast Range it doesn't seem to matter too much unless you're skinning steep terrain. When you skin as high as you can go and then switch to boot-packing or cramponing you usually have to jam the tails of the skis into the snow during the transition. Not having tail fixation can allow the last couple inches of skin to be peeled off letting snow get all over it. The problem then continues to get worse. Taping doesn't seem to help that much and it's a pain.

 

When skiing lots of mini-golf or yo-yo laps where it's cold (around 0) tail clips are a nice addition after the first or second skin reapplication.

 

I don't think cutting skins is difficult if you pay attention. The first pair I ever did came out just fine. If one is not mechanically inclined or good with tools they should probably do the job sober though.

[Beck]

what happens when you go to use shaped skins on a ski with different sidecut or dimensions? Do most of you have a separate set of skins for each set of skis in your quiver?

 

There are a few more compelling reasons to run on straight skins...

[snoboy]

Beck said:Do most of you have a separate set of skins for each set of skis in your quiver?

 

I do. Of course my "quiver" is two pairs.

 

I agree with most everything said above. I like tail clips, (G3 system has served me well, as has lou dawson's rat-tail), I like wall to wall, I like shaped.

 

Big reason for shaping skins is if you have lots of sidecut, and you are trying to edge your way up a refrozen side hill. You are mostly on the flared out part of your skis, and the skins don't have much chance to stick if they aren't cvering that area. Course the best solution to that problem is straight skis

 

The tool for cutting that comes with most of them is a letter opener! An exacto blade works nice too. Measure twice, cut once, and use the freaking template if you are doing the tail piece for the G3/GlideLite skins.

 

BTW, skins don't really glide all that well, so giving up grip for glide is kind of silly IMHO - skins are for going UP! If you want grip and glide, then it's probably time to break out the wax!

 

What DustinB wondered, about buying a skin slightly narrower than you tip dimension, is not only OK, it'll make the whole trimming thing a little easier. Nobody sells skins preshaped as far as I know.

 

[cj001f]

snoboy said:Nobody sells skins preshaped as far as I know.

Lifelink does for their Dynafit skis. But not many people ski Dynafit skis, so that doesn't do much good. The letter opener works fine good to trim - as does an ordinary razor blade.

 

I've a different pair of skins for most of the quiver. I usually buy my skis slightly used, so 2 of the last 4 have come with skins already. Their's enough difference in width & length interchange is more pain than it's worht. The ones that didn't come with skins were mostly longer, skinnier skis, which are fairly easy to find cheap skins (just don't get the Black (Mohair?) Ascensions from REI)

[iain]

I think you guys are exaggerating the shaped skin advantage. I have used both on the same skis, and to be honest, I slip at roughly the same times. Also, there are times when I have to ski significant downhill with the skins on. Having a bit of ski showing at the shovel and tail makes this less painful, giving much more response to turning. Straight skins stick together cleanly too. That said, I now have edge to edge since BD sent me an additional pair. Be sure if you go edge to edge to leave a decent margin on each side so you can dig in a metal edge on steep traverses.

[cracked]

Ok, let's get specific. I've got a pair of Miras, dimensions 112-79-102, and my straight skins are 65mm wide. I used them because I had nothing else. The skins were originally for a pair of skinny touring skis, something like 80-68-75. Using these skins on my Miras I noticed that, even in soft snow, if I weight the edge of the ski more I tend to slip. The effect is way greater than with the skinnier skis. I'd argue that wider skins cost only a tiny bit more, it's really easy to trim them, and I want to go up with skins, so why not get the extra grip, even if you don't notice often? More skin=more grip, period, even if it isn't always noticeable. YMMV.

[cj001f]

iain said:

I think you guys are exaggerating the shaped skin advantage. I have used both on the same skis, and to be honest, I slip at roughly the same times. Also, there are times when I have to ski significant downhill with the skins on. Having a bit of ski showing at the shovel and tail makes this less painful, giving much more response to turning. Straight skins stick together cleanly too. /quote]

 

What you say is true. Especially about sticking shaped skins together. And no the difference isn't that great. And it's alot easier to find skinny skins on sale nowadays than the fat ones.

 

As for going downhill with skins on - I don't think the respondants of this thread care much about tourability - if they did they'd realize some of the benefits to long, skinny skis.