willstrickland Posted November 3, 2003 Share Posted November 3, 2003 While we were on Zodiac there was a soloist below us who was doing the route for his first wall. I thought that was pretty ballsy, soloing El Cap for your first wall route. My first wall route was also a solo, but not quite in the same league (Prodigal Son) . Well after seeing and hearing (ping-ping-ping) the guy climb pitches 5-8 my admiration began to dissipate. We placed one pin on the whole route on pitch 7 (and could have gotten by without that one). By the time he'd finished pitch 8, he'd probably placed 15 pins. In my mind, he was clearly in over his head and had no business being on the route. We didn't clean any fixed gear, and I know he had a comprehensive rack (I passed the rack hangin off the p2 anchors when we jugged our fixed lines). He claimed to have done a couple of practice routes (first two pitches of a couple of El Cap routes that start clean) and admitted to me when he go to belay 6 that he'd never placed any pins prior to that. After that was the bootied cam incident where he cleaned a cam I had to leave under a roof...a cam I absolutely expected him to booty. Well, when we went back to the summit to retrieve our gear a couple of days after finishing, he was topping out. We hooked him up with some food and a little water . He mentioned the cam and said he would get it back to me in camp. I thought that was cool because by all rights it was his cam. Later that night I heard him on the radio talking to the soloist on South Seas. He said he'd bootied this #2 and was going to give it back, but now thought he'd keep it. Needless to say, I couldn't believe what I was hearing. I came very, very close to drilling him in the grill when I found him on the ground , but got the cam back first while acting friendly then told him I'd heard him on the radio and he was a phucking prick. He made a hasty exit. So I don't want to name the guy, but if you're curious go over to rc.com and you'll see him getting props for his "ballsy" solo. You might look in the Aid Climbing Forum over there. So aside from being a prick liar, whadya think...hero for El Cap solo for a first wall, or zero for being in over his head and nailing the shit out of everything? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Necronomicon Posted November 3, 2003 Share Posted November 3, 2003 Aid climbing is aid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelawgoddess Posted November 3, 2003 Share Posted November 3, 2003 he has every right to keep bootied gear, but he shouldn't have gone back on his word if he told you he was going to return it. uncool. the dude's trip report as for his nailing, it may be an a2 route, but i know several people who have done it without nailing at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMR Posted November 3, 2003 Share Posted November 3, 2003 Just read it...he said he placed pins...and it didn't sound like he was chestbeating? Sounded ok... I'd be pissed about the cam, if he said he'd give it back... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Necronomicon Posted November 3, 2003 Share Posted November 3, 2003 thelawgoddess said: he has every right to keep bootied gear, but he shouldn't have gone back on his word if he told you he was going to return it. uncool. the dude's trip report "The boy fancies himself a writer. And the length of the TR alone counts for a MEGA-Chestbeat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glassgowkiss Posted November 3, 2003 Share Posted November 3, 2003 zodiak is a free route now. nobody should be nailing on it. like nobody is nailing on the nose, salathe, lurking fear or u-wall. i hope people remember it with the seasons to come. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted November 3, 2003 Share Posted November 3, 2003 I'm sorry that not everybody is as brilliant as you, Necro. I don't see anything wrong with somebody trying to present something they think may be interesting -- skip if if you don't want to read it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chelle Posted November 3, 2003 Share Posted November 3, 2003 zodiak is a free route now. nobody should be nailing on it. like nobody is nailing on the nose, salathe, lurking fear or u-wall. i hope people remember it with the seasons to come. I heard of someone else nailing on Zodiac on a solo ascent this summer... Damn aid climbers! You know who you are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glassgowkiss Posted November 3, 2003 Share Posted November 3, 2003 mattp said: I'm sorry that not everybody is as brilliant as you, Necro. I don't see anything wrong with somebody trying to present something they think may be interesting -- skip if if you don't want to read it. that's why i posted my tr from canada in spray. because that's where all these tr belong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Necronomicon Posted November 3, 2003 Share Posted November 3, 2003 mattp said: I'm sorry that not everybody is as brilliant as you, Necro. I don't see anything wrong with somebody trying to present something they think may be interesting -- skip if if you don't want to read it. I'm not sorry everyone is not as brilliant as me. Who would I have to make fun of? As for this tool, I didn't read his self-flattering drivel. If a climb goes clean, you climb it clean, or you don't climb it. Nailing a clean line is bullshit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russ Posted November 3, 2003 Share Posted November 3, 2003 Good TR - I enjoyed the detail. pretty straight forward,not much chest beating at all. to him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa_Eagle Posted November 3, 2003 Share Posted November 3, 2003 I'd say Necro definately falls under the "zero" category Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willstrickland Posted November 3, 2003 Author Share Posted November 3, 2003 Necronomicon said: If a climb goes clean, you climb it clean, or you don't climb it. Nailing a clean line is bullshit. But there's a caveat Necro...Zodiac depends on heaps of fixed gear to go clean, so depending on what shape it is in, it might require nailing. However, since we were the party directly in front of this guy, I KNOW what shape the route was in...it was fully capable of going clean at a C3F NTB rating. Even the C3 sections that didn't rely on fixed gear to go clean, sections that I cam hooked, offset aliened, two cam aliened, or hooked through, this guy was nailing. Also sounds like he was using gear the Hubers left in place while working on the Nipple after we passed...I distincly remember one inverted cam hook move as well as placing several pieces before the tit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted November 3, 2003 Share Posted November 3, 2003 glassgowkiss said: zodiak is a free route now. nobody should be nailing on it. like nobody is nailing on the nose, salathe, lurking fear or u-wall. i hope people remember it with the seasons to come. local Squamish climber who made an early free ascent of U-Wall still places a few pins on it when he is guiding it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Necronomicon Posted November 3, 2003 Share Posted November 3, 2003 willstrickland said: Necronomicon said: If a climb goes clean, you climb it clean, or you don't climb it. Nailing a clean line is bullshit. But there's a caveat Necro...Zodiac depends on heaps of fixed gear to go clean, so depending on what shape it is in, it might require nailing. However, since we were the party directly in front of this guy, I KNOW what shape the route was in...it was fully capable of going clean at a C3F NTB rating. Even the C3 sections that didn't rely on fixed gear to go clean, sections that I cam hooked, offset aliened, two cam aliened, or hooked through, this guy was nailing. Also sounds like he was using gear the Hubers left in place while working on the Nipple after we passed...I distincly remember one inverted cam hook move as well as placing several pieces before the tit. He was clearly in over his head, then. His inexperience, combined with his ego, diminished the challenge of the route for those that follow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Necronomicon Posted November 3, 2003 Share Posted November 3, 2003 Ursa_Eagle said: I'd say Necro definately falls under the "zero" category Thanks for your props, I'll be sure not to ask for a letter of recommendation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glassgowkiss Posted November 3, 2003 Share Posted November 3, 2003 Dru said: glassgowkiss said: zodiak is a free route now. nobody should be nailing on it. like nobody is nailing on the nose, salathe, lurking fear or u-wall. i hope people remember it with the seasons to come. local Squamish climber who made an early free ascent of U-Wall still places a few pins on it when he is guiding it tell who he is and i'll give him glasgow kiss, what a fuck wad prick. nialing a free route (which goes at modarate grade) makes me wanna make him dance to the music of automatic weapon fire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RicardoLagos Posted November 4, 2003 Share Posted November 4, 2003 Well i guess i'll chime in -- since i'm the dude that soloed zodiac behind will.. for the record .. i placed about 12 pins total .. 7 pins on the black tower -- 3 or 4 of those below the tip of the tower .. 4 or 3 of them above the tip of the tower. They were pretty bomber pins. This pitch is a C3FR pitch .. and if you blow it you might have some hospital bills .. (ask the guy who broke his pelvis back in may about it) .. .. on pitch 8 i placed an unnecesary pin .. right off the belay - then climbed the rest clean of that pitch clean .. (after a failed attemp to place a head further up!) .. the pitch up to the tit was all fixed -- its true, what a shame. -- i did climb pitch 10 (nipple pitch) clean. -- took my second fall on this pitch when a cam hook popped. .. will left behind quite a-lot of gear, which i had to carry to the top .. and then carry all the extra weight down the east ledges rappel .. I got about $140 worth of gear from him on the route .. and returned about $70 of it. I did talk smack to dave turner on the radio the night before (when i was on top), and i'm sorry that pissed him off, i didn;t know he was on the radio... i did always intend to return to him the gear that i had told him i had .. (a gold camalot and some biners) .. which he promptly got back when he found me on the valley floor .. .. i did make a hasty retreat after he told me that he heard my conversation on the radio the night before .. because i did not want ot return the other $70 worth of gear .. i consider this my trophy for the summit... (for the record also -- those pieces are 1 red camalot, 3 slings, a few carabiners, a locking carabiner, 1 nut -- which i'm not sure was his) will was a nice guy, and gave me water + food on top .. and he also made room at belay #6 for me when i cought up to them for a short instance. .. anyways .. those are the facts as i remember them .. .. in case you're wondering if i was in over my head -- i'd have to say yes .. i did not have the experience to do this route .. only the will and the courage to try.. -- thats the beauty of climbing .. you can get in over your head if you want -- of course there is a price .. but thats up to YOU to pay .. i could have died .. i didn't. at the time that i soloed zodiac i'd been climbing for a total of 11 months .. leading for a total of 9 months .. had only done 4 aid pitches total .. never done a big wall .. never hauled, never nailed .. my best free pitch i'd led was a 5.9 (single move of 5.9) .. i soled zodiac for my first big wall ever in 7 days on sept 2003. -- ricardo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iain Posted November 4, 2003 Share Posted November 4, 2003 I love this site! bwahaha! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RicardoLagos Posted November 4, 2003 Share Posted November 4, 2003 will -- if you really cared about your gear you could have asked for it back once you found my email address ... i would have mailed it to you. -- ricardo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erik Posted November 4, 2003 Share Posted November 4, 2003 RicardoLagos said: will -- if you really cared about your gear you could have asked for it back once you found my email address ... i would have mailed it to you. -- ricardo other then your wall trophy you have talked to much with that fuckhead pete. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimL Posted November 4, 2003 Share Posted November 4, 2003 RicardoLagos said: Well i guess i'll chime in -- since i'm the dude that soloed zodiac behind will.. for the record .. i placed about 12 pins total .. 7 pins on the black tower -- 3 or 4 of those below the tip of the tower .. 4 or 3 of them above the tip of the tower. They were pretty bomber pins. This pitch is a C3FR pitch .. and if you blow it you might have some hospital bills .. (ask the guy who broke his pelvis back in may about it) .. .. on pitch 8 i placed an unnecesary pin .. right off the belay - then climbed the rest clean of that pitch clean .. (after a failed attemp to place a head further up!) .. the pitch up to the tit was all fixed -- its true, what a shame. -- i did climb pitch 10 (nipple pitch) clean. -- took my second fall on this pitch when a cam hook popped. .. will left behind quite a-lot of gear, which i had to carry to the top .. and then carry all the extra weight down the east ledges rappel .. I got about $140 worth of gear from him on the route .. and returned about $70 of it. I did talk smack to dave turner on the radio the night before (when i was on top), and i'm sorry that pissed him off, i didn;t know he was on the radio... i did always intend to return to him the gear that i had told him i had .. (a gold camalot and some biners) .. which he promptly got back when he found me on the valley floor .. .. i did make a hasty retreat after he told me that he heard my conversation on the radio the night before .. because i did not want ot return the other $70 worth of gear .. i consider this my trophy for the summit... (for the record also -- those pieces are 1 red camalot, 3 slings, a few carabiners, a locking carabiner, 1 nut -- which i'm not sure was his) will was a nice guy, and gave me water + food on top .. and he also made room at belay #6 for me when i cought up to them for a short instance. .. anyways .. those are the facts as i remember them .. .. in case you're wondering if i was in over my head -- i'd have to say yes .. i did not have the experience to do this route .. only the will and the courage to try.. -- thats the beauty of climbing .. you can get in over your head if you want -- of course there is a price .. but thats up to YOU to pay .. i could have died .. i didn't. at the time that i soloed zodiac i'd been climbing for a total of 11 months .. leading for a total of 9 months .. had only done 4 aid pitches total .. never done a big wall .. never hauled, never nailed .. my best free pitch i'd led was a 5.9 (single move of 5.9) .. i soled zodiac for my first big wall ever in 7 days on sept 2003. -- ricardo i vote ricardo hero and lil willy zero. guess the internet is not a safe place to talk shit anymore......this site is great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RicardoLagos Posted November 4, 2003 Share Posted November 4, 2003 erik said: RicardoLagos said: will -- if you really cared about your gear you could have asked for it back once you found my email address ... i would have mailed it to you. -- ricardo other then your wall trophy you have talked to much with that fuckhead pete. .. pete's help was neccesary to make the summit of zodiac .. i dont think there is any question of that .. without his help i would not have even gotten off the ground. -- ricardo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willstrickland Posted November 4, 2003 Author Share Posted November 4, 2003 Red camalot was not ours, partner apparently left a couple of biners at belay 3 where our fixed lines went. We left one nut fixed Red Camalot must have belonged to the Hubers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RicardoLagos Posted November 4, 2003 Share Posted November 4, 2003 willstrickland said: Red camalot was not ours, partner apparently left a couple of biners at belay 3 where our fixed lines went. We left one nut fixed Red Camalot must have belonged to the Hubers. doubt it -- the red cam was on pitch 15 (or 16 -- i forget) .. it had a blue/white sling on it .. -- the hubers skipped those pitches by rapping down to one side. (while they were working) the nut i cleaned was on pitch 7 (black tower) it came out without a nut tool ... (it wasnt fixed) .. -- it actually came out when i was testing it by hand. -- ricardo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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