RicardoLagos

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man .. all you guys who thinnk that nailing around 12 pins on zodiac is a big deal are just lame .. .. do you guys know how many pins the hubers drove in to do their free ascent? -- (i can tell you a base number -- i counted all the pins they had driven onto the nipple pitch) .. .. you're not bitching and moaning over those... .. the route is a nailing route .. -- its not commonly accepted to be a clean route -- you may choose to do it clean .. or not .. .. talk to chris mac about changing his topo if you want more of the community to do the route clean .. the funny part is that will's memory of my climb is a bit faulty -- the first pin i drove was into the black tower (not pitch 5) .. he saw me fail to drive a pin onto pitch 6 .. i nailed on 7, 8, 12, 15, 16 -- (15 could have been hand placed -- but i tapped them in for good measure) .. .. good thing the pin police was not at the base of el cap this year ... -- ricardo

I got issues alright, and that issue is that you were clearly unprepared (experience wise). I don't deny that you had great determination to see it through, and that it was a formidable goal. I've soloed and it's hard and lonely fuckin work. But your whole statement of how it wouldn't have been possible for you to continue (without all the nailing) kind of exemplifies the mindset I abhor...summit at all costs. Did it ever occur to you that "hey the party ahead of me wasn't nailing this" Luckily granite does not take quite the beating that sandstone does. If I'd been nailing on clean routes I've done in Zion, there would have been an angry posse waiting on the ground. ugh -- the worst part about your post is that it assumes that i was trying to accomplish the same thing that you and your partner were out to accomplish ... .. news flash.. thats not the way the world works .. you dont have to live up to other people's standards .. set your own -- be comfortable with them .. and go for them .. .. my standards were to 1 - survive 2 - do the route as clean as possible in that order .. .. your standard is not the one everyone else has to climb by .. -- ricardo

I got issues alright, and that issue is that you were clearly unprepared (experience wise). I don't deny that you had great determination to see it through, and that it was a formidable goal. I've soloed and it's hard and lonely fuckin work. But your whole statement of how it wouldn't have been possible for you to continue (without all the nailing) kind of exemplifies the mindset I abhor...summit at all costs. Did it ever occur to you that "hey the party ahead of me wasn't nailing this" Luckily granite does not take quite the beating that sandstone does. If I'd been nailing on clean routes I've done in Zion, there would have been an angry posse waiting on the ground. i think el cap (and zodiac) is still a fairly difficult route, (even after i got through with it.. .. someone once told me that clean climbing is for pussies -- (someone with a rather large FA resume.. hmm) .. .. anyways .. i think we can agree to disagree on this one .. .. since i believe that i did the best job i could on a route that is still acceptable to nail (specially since i only nailed 12 or 13 pins) .. btw -- Zodiac is NOT a clean route .. the supertaco says so.. :-) -- ricardo

Likely the nut on 7 was the one we left fixed, differential temperature expansion can loosen pieces, or maybe I spaced it and went right by it. Red camalot was definitely not ours since I own no reds with non-original sling, if it was on 15 and you mean had a runner-sling attached to the cam's own sling, partner might have left it without telling me when lowering out, I don't know since I led 15 at sunset and didn't watch him clean the pitch.. Sorry it was so much trouble for you to haul all that weight of booty gear to the summit, must have been grueling to transport your trophies so far. Prick. what the hell are you so upset about -- you obviously got most of your gear back -- (and i'm betting that your partner didn't tell you that he left a red camalot behind -- because the sling matches the sling on the yellow cam) .. (sling was attached to the sling ON the cam -- via a girth hitch) .. whatever i said to dave -- obviosuly was smack -- since you DID get your gear back. i'm surprised that you dont talk about the "ethics" of your own ascent -- you didn't carry your own gear up to the base -- (i did) .. you didn;t carry all of your gear off the climb (i did) .. so whats up?! .. .. you want to talk smack -- should have done it when you found me on the valley floor .. -- oh -- and had you tride to hit me then -- i would have pasted you all over the parking lot -- (haha -- its fun to talk smack on the net -- ) .. sheesh .. (note .. i'm friggin kidding .. this whole thread is sort of silly) -- ricardo

Yeah, I'm sure you would have, especially after you told your bro how you were just gonna keep it instead Dude, as I said in my initial post...it was rightfully yours as booty. I've bootied plenty of gear, but I also don't offer it back of my own accord and then recant and gloat about it on the radio to my buddies like some punk ass bitch. .. whatever -- you're upset over a conversation i had with dave while i was on the summit -- i was talking smack .. (ever done that?) .. if i didn't want to return it i could have said no when you asked for it.. putting down my ascent (or asking others to) just proves that you've got issues .. go deal with them. As far as i'm concerned, my ascent stands for itself .. and i'll gladly discuss any aspect of it -- i stuck my neck out as far as i could, and have no shame in whatever style i chose to use to climb any of those pitches. clean climbing is a nice goal -- and i'm sure some of my future ascents will be climbed cleaner .. but in this case -- those pins were neccesary for me to continue. -- ricardo

doubt it -- the red cam was on pitch 15 (or 16 -- i forget) .. it had a blue/white sling on it .. -- the hubers skipped those pitches by rapping down to one side. (while they were working) the nut i cleaned was on pitch 7 (black tower) it came out without a nut tool ... (it wasnt fixed) .. -- it actually came out when i was testing it by hand. -- ricardo

other then your wall trophy you have talked to much with that fuckhead pete. .. pete's help was neccesary to make the summit of zodiac .. i dont think there is any question of that .. without his help i would not have even gotten off the ground. -- ricardo

will -- if you really cared about your gear you could have asked for it back once you found my email address ... i would have mailed it to you. -- ricardo

Well i guess i'll chime in -- since i'm the dude that soloed zodiac behind will.. for the record .. i placed about 12 pins total .. 7 pins on the black tower -- 3 or 4 of those below the tip of the tower .. 4 or 3 of them above the tip of the tower. They were pretty bomber pins. This pitch is a C3FR pitch .. and if you blow it you might have some hospital bills .. (ask the guy who broke his pelvis back in may about it) .. .. on pitch 8 i placed an unnecesary pin .. right off the belay - then climbed the rest clean of that pitch clean .. (after a failed attemp to place a head further up!) .. the pitch up to the tit was all fixed -- its true, what a shame. -- i did climb pitch 10 (nipple pitch) clean. -- took my second fall on this pitch when a cam hook popped. .. will left behind quite a-lot of gear, which i had to carry to the top .. and then carry all the extra weight down the east ledges rappel .. I got about $140 worth of gear from him on the route .. and returned about $70 of it. I did talk smack to dave turner on the radio the night before (when i was on top), and i'm sorry that pissed him off, i didn;t know he was on the radio... i did always intend to return to him the gear that i had told him i had .. (a gold camalot and some biners) .. which he promptly got back when he found me on the valley floor .. .. i did make a hasty retreat after he told me that he heard my conversation on the radio the night before .. because i did not want ot return the other $70 worth of gear .. i consider this my trophy for the summit... (for the record also -- those pieces are 1 red camalot, 3 slings, a few carabiners, a locking carabiner, 1 nut -- which i'm not sure was his) will was a nice guy, and gave me water + food on top .. and he also made room at belay #6 for me when i cought up to them for a short instance. .. anyways .. those are the facts as i remember them .. .. in case you're wondering if i was in over my head -- i'd have to say yes .. i did not have the experience to do this route .. only the will and the courage to try.. -- thats the beauty of climbing .. you can get in over your head if you want -- of course there is a price .. but thats up to YOU to pay .. i could have died .. i didn't. at the time that i soloed zodiac i'd been climbing for a total of 11 months .. leading for a total of 9 months .. had only done 4 aid pitches total .. never done a big wall .. never hauled, never nailed .. my best free pitch i'd led was a 5.9 (single move of 5.9) .. i soled zodiac for my first big wall ever in 7 days on sept 2003. -- ricardo