Wopper Posted March 20, 2002 Posted March 20, 2002 I was out spending my dividend last night and while checking out the biner rack looked at some Omega Pacific biners. They appear to be of comparable weight(no I did not look up the specs) as the other biners, they have all the ratings and certifications yet they are cheaper. Does anyone have first hand knowledge/experience with their gear? Good? Bad? Other? Quote
nervedoc Posted March 20, 2002 Posted March 20, 2002 The wire-gate, bent-gate, seam good. I only have some of their d-biners, and suffice to say, I only use them for simple taks like top roping or in as quickdraws for very secure low stree situations. They have a very limiting gate clearance, which has been a major pain in backside at times. Then again... mine are old and maybe they've changed them. food for thought Quote
allison Posted March 20, 2002 Posted March 20, 2002 They used to be made with prison labor, not sure if they are anymore, but I don't like that and consequently have not bought any. They also had a recall a few years back for defective 'biners.... Quote
Zenolith Posted March 20, 2002 Posted March 20, 2002 I have some 4.o wiregate biners which are really nice for my purposes. they have a gate opening of 29mm, rated to 26kN, and weigh 49 gm. These are my favorite wire biners. I have some jc wires too which are good but not as easy to use with gloves on. i have their caranut tool too which is nice but i think i've seen one made by some other company now. I have some knob handle screws which are basically the same as smiley's. good stuff i think. some people say they are no good but they give "too cheap" as their only reason which i think is stupid. Quote
pindude Posted March 20, 2002 Posted March 20, 2002 quote: Originally posted by allison: They used to be made with prison labor, not sure if they are anymore, but I don't like that and consequently have not bought any. They also had a recall a few years back for defective 'biners.... Don't be too quick to judge. I originally did, too, when I first heard, but I opened my eyes and mind. They ARE made with "prison labor," which is not a bad thing if you really think about it: The O-P manufacturing facility is located in the Airway Heights minimum security prison, just west of Spokane. Guys and gals on their way out of the correctional system have a great opportunity to contribute and earn money, self-respect, etc. The prisoners do much of the menial-labor tasks; the engineering, etc. is done by people like you and me who sleep at night on this side of the barbed wire fence. Their 'biners are not "inferior" because of prison labor. Just what are you insinuating? That the recall was a result of the prisoners doing something such as sabatoge, or at the least carelessness? Give me a break. Omega's recall would not have been because of a problem related to the prisoners; it would have been a result of the design or process as established by the NON-prisoner employees. Many other climbing-industry manufacturers have had recalls, it is not highly unusual. Omega-Pacific will give you a tour of the manufacturing facility. They make all their products to surpass industry spec's. You can see first-hand the type of controls they have in place. You would also see the pride the prisoners take in being able to positively contribute. Admittedly, my favorite 'biners are the Bill Belcourt-designed Black Diamond wire-gates. Neutrinos and Hot Wires rock. But I also have lots of O-P ovals, D's, and locking D's on my rack, which are first-rate and bombproof. Pindude Quote
red Posted March 20, 2002 Posted March 20, 2002 I have been buying the OP ice screws and have loved them. There the exact same as the bd’s with the knobs that don’t flip down, at least as far as I can tell Quote
allison Posted March 20, 2002 Posted March 20, 2002 Uh, it has less to do with "prisoners making stuff" and more to do with "not being made by people working under acceptable labor standards." Quote
Elvis Posted March 20, 2002 Posted March 20, 2002 quote: Originally posted by allison: Uh, it has less to do with "prisoners making stuff" and more to do with "not being made by people working under acceptable labor standards." What unacceptable labor standards? Quote
IceIceBaby Posted March 20, 2002 Posted March 20, 2002 I think we drifting here to labor laws and hypothetical ethical debates(what I call "blowing wind"), and totally missing the point Op gear is great, as long that u don’t mind a thicker binner with larger nose (just visually compare OP wiregate nose or regular nose to BD, Kong or DMM). It could be some time a pain (clipping bolts, pitons etc…) and they tend to be on the heavy side but they are awesome value Quote
willstrickland Posted March 20, 2002 Posted March 20, 2002 To answer the original question: I use, and recomment OP. My draws are 4.0 wiregate/4.0 straight gate, I've got a few of their screws, as well as a bunch of JC wiregates and some really old ovals and Ds. The 4.0 wires are the deal if you'll have gloves on, the gate clearance is big and the "nose" end is deep. The JCs are great for rock routes, with a big rope radiud and superlight weight. The screws have been fine, as good or better than anything else out there. Of course the ovals and Ds don't see much use, but show me any oval or D design that does these days. The low prices are great and add the knock off for blems and you have a really nice price, I paid around $4.50 for the JCs and $27 for the screws, compare that to retail on BD products. Labor, in this case, is not an issue to me (as if US min security adult prison labor is worse than 13 year old overseas sweatshop labor). Plus, they have the adventures of Omega Man on their web page, check it out. Quote
DPS Posted March 20, 2002 Posted March 20, 2002 I have to agree with Allison. When OP went to prison labor they layed off most of their work force in Kirkland. The president was interviewed in a newspaper article and his attitude really bugged me. He said prison labor was great because he did not have to hire single mothers who would miss work when their kids got sick. As a single parent that rubbed me the wrong way. Quote
Rodchester Posted March 20, 2002 Posted March 20, 2002 I have a feeling that Whopper is looking at the JC Wire Gate v. the Neutrino? The Neutrino is a little lighter than the JC Wire Gate. 5 Grams lighter to be exact. JC WIRE GATE Weight 41 gmsGate opening 22mmRetail $6.95Load bearing surface 10mm BD Neutrino Weight 36 gm (1.27 oz) Gate opening (.37 inch) 22mm Retail $7.95Load bearing surface 9.4mm (.866 inch) As a comparision the other BD wire gate biners have a 25mm gate opening. So with the Omega JC Wire Gate for a dollar less each biner you get a little more weight and a little more rope bearing surface. Same gate. Additioanlly with the Omega JC Wire gate you get the privilige of knowing that you are helping thousands of convicts to rehabilitate themselves by learning a trade and an uncompromising work ethic. Those that would say no to prison labor are simply the unwitting tools of the little known conspiracy between the union machine and the "man" trying to keep the little guy down. Trying to prevent even an medoric rise that might threaten the union death grip on labor and the "man's" control of profits and scoiety as a whole. Odd bedfellows true. But you must believe and say....yes, yes, YES!!! to prision labor!!! Come on everybody!!! (If you are still reading this and actually think me or anyone else believes this please execise your 2nd amendment rights on yourself in your backyard - easier to clean up that way). Quote
IceIceBaby Posted March 20, 2002 Posted March 20, 2002 quote: Originally posted by danielpatricksmith: that rubbed me the wrong way. And again...The question on hand was how the performance and value of OP is compare to the market average Not...you're personal sentimental preference [ 03-20-2002: Message edited by: IceIceBaby ] Quote
EV Posted March 20, 2002 Posted March 20, 2002 Check out OP's newest biner, it's called the Doval. 37 grams; gate clearance is 28mm; strength is 25kN. They say it's an ovalized-D frame. Wire gate. It's like a regular oval but lighter and stronger. $6.95 a pop. Quote
Rodchester Posted March 20, 2002 Posted March 20, 2002 Looks interesting: Omega - New Biner by Prison Labor Quote
Gerg Posted March 20, 2002 Posted March 20, 2002 Wopper, I picked up a bunch of the JC wiregates at the Marmot store in Bellevue last year on the cheap. They are nice and light. If you have bigger fingers and/or are wearing gloves these 'biners can be a bit more difficult to use than a regular size 'biner because of the smaller gate opening. This has all be mentioned before. Overall, I'm happy with the gear and would buy more. I would give the Doval a look though, since it does have a bigger gate opening and is a few grams lighter. Greg Quote
willstrickland Posted March 20, 2002 Posted March 20, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Rodchester: JC WIRE GATELoad bearing surface 10mm Rope bearing radius for the JCs are > 11mm, not 10mm. The bar stock they begin with is 10mm before the cold forging. Additionally, if you want to make a tit-for-tat comparison of biners, throw the Neurinos against the Dovals, not the JCs. [ 03-20-2002: Message edited by: willstrickland ] Quote
Dru Posted March 20, 2002 Posted March 20, 2002 Just for Neri Prison labor is all about the lack of choice. The prisoners dont get to choose to be hired by Omega. They get, well, not exactly forced, but... Hey, where does the lineup for organ transplants from Chinese prisoners start anyways? All this booze is wrecking my kidneys, I could use a new pair... Quote
DPS Posted March 20, 2002 Posted March 20, 2002 Ice Ice Baby, quote: And again...The question on hand was how the performance and value of OP is compare to the market average Not...you're personal sentimental preference Right. By the way that should be 'your' to indicate possession. You're is a contraction of you are. Quote
wdietsch Posted March 20, 2002 Posted March 20, 2002 I have various Omega biners from the older Omega-Lite 2's, std oval's and d's to the newer Omega 4's in both std gate and wire. Have yet to have a problem. Can't say the same for other brands I own. I also recently purchased one of the Omega Jake HMS style units, which although they are a bit on the heavy side of things, have that nice "off-axis" gate swing which I find works well when your have multiple knots/tie-in's on one biner, such as hanging belays.FWIW several of my friends have OP ice screws and I hear few complaints. IMO - I think putting prisoners to work is a good thing Quote
Figger_Eight Posted March 20, 2002 Posted March 20, 2002 I've used them in the past and have no complaints. They're a good deal for the price. quote: Prison labor is all about the lack of choice. The prisoners dont get to choose to be hired by Omega. They get, well, not exactly forced, but... Hey Dru, they made the choice to break into a car and get their ass thrown in jail. It's either this or license plates, and this world needs more carabiners, not cars [ 03-20-2002: Message edited by: Figger Eight ] Quote
Dru Posted March 20, 2002 Posted March 20, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Figger Eight: I've used them in the past and have no complaints. They're a good deal for the price. Hey Dru, they made the choice to break into a car and get their ass thrown in jail. It's either this or license plates, and this world needs more carabiners, not cars [ 03-20-2002: Message edited by: Figger Eight ] Prison labor is the fastest growing labor force in the USA. It is growing as quickly as non-prison labor is shrinking. And many of those in the jail are not there cause they broke into a car, they are there cause they got caught toking. Quote
rr666 Posted March 20, 2002 Posted March 20, 2002 I have used OP 'biners for a long time. I do not have any of their newer ones, but like the old one a bunch, especially for the price. When they went to the ISO cold forged design though, the gate clearance really shrunk down. They are cheap and light, but I would not recommend them. I am planning on buying some of their omegalights, or JC's soon. The Doval's look interesting also. Might grab a couple of those to try asl well. Quote
IceIceBaby Posted March 20, 2002 Posted March 20, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Dru: Just for NeriPrison labor is all about the lack of choice. The prisoners dont get to choose to be hired by Omega. They get, well, not exactly forced, but... Hey, where does the lineup for organ transplants from Chinese prisoners start anyways? All this booze is wrecking my kidneys, I could use a new pair... Dru and Allison OK I will bite...[*]I just don’t see the connection between the final product comparing to any given similar product, to the way its been labored. [*]The person who post here originally ask for a product performance comparing and not labor ethical facts.[*]My opinion is:If labor will decrease in-jail violence, supply a time consuming occupation (remember the phrase "doing time") and will increase self worth in environment that been created for a sole purpose of suppressing the individual and his rights, all power to them.Now let's see… How a prisoner become one? A) by doing society a grand favor B) by committing a crime against society In order to punish a violators we should A) let them keep their freedom and treat them as an average citizen with all their rights B) take away their right and freedom and start the rehabilitation process with the prisoner paying his dues to society I think that this sum my opinion on the subject [ 03-20-2002: Message edited by: IceIceBaby ] Quote
Country_Jake Posted March 20, 2002 Posted March 20, 2002 I only have a few lock beans that I use on my harnesses.... I like them, the gate opens offset just a little so it is more efficant, or at least when your at the top of a peak and you looking down at death itself, you can easaly clip into your repeling gear. Exelent job on the prison case here guys...I say work on, for what the %*!@ else are they gonna do while in prison, PICK THEIR ASS. Quote
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