Dru Posted October 15, 2003 Share Posted October 15, 2003 check it out this was a question for Jim Nelson or anyone else about how much aid was used during the FWA of Slesse NE Butt I guess we can't ask people for beta anymore? Anyone? Is one of the moderators worried I'm asking about their secret project? W TF it's in my backyard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted October 15, 2003 Share Posted October 15, 2003 Do you need his email address? We've been talking about it in the super secret moderator's forum, and some have pointed out that yours could have been an interesting thread but you certainly have nothing to whine about along the lines of being unable to ask for beta. I'll tell you that I didn't delete it but I did kind of wonder if yours was a question that might have been more efficiently addressed in an email. Get over it, then go out and climb it, then come back to spray about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted October 15, 2003 Author Share Posted October 15, 2003 Background to question: I was looking thru the Cascade Select the other night and saw the FWA of Slesse pic with either Jim or Kit in aiders. And I know they took 8 days. So I was wondering: How much aid was used?obviously 5.9 is like M5 so the possibility for a free ascent are good. But whether a free ascent would be no big deal (like they only aided a few moves) or a big deal (they aided nearly all of it?) I don't know though I'd guess the aid was used on a lot of it due to the 8 day time frame. So I figured I would ask - but rather than just shoot Jim a PM I figured I would make it a post because 1) other people might also be wondering the same thing; 2) other people might know the answer and reply quicker than Jim; 3) other people might not have considered the FFWA a project but would upon seeing the query. My own interest is kinda abstract because I struggle with single pitch M5 at the moment. But Colin was asking me about the HoD couloir at the rope up and that's what got me thinking about if it is even the most worthy winter project on the mountain. I don't doubt with modern raised standards vs. 1983 many are capable of knocking it off..... So anyways which moderator deleted it and why? I would think this question is something we want to see more of and less of the "eat balls asseyes" type of posts no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted October 15, 2003 Share Posted October 15, 2003 I can't understand why someone would do that. Sounds like abuse of trust to me, if what you say is true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted October 15, 2003 Share Posted October 15, 2003 Dru, I agree that your inquiry might have lead to an interesting thread. It was posted in a manner that looked like a private email (the title was "question for Jim Nelson" and you asked a question that appeared to be directed solely at him), and a certain moderator mistook it for such. I'm sorry you put so much thought into something that was removed, but I don't think any real harm was done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted October 15, 2003 Author Share Posted October 15, 2003 catbirdseat said: I can't understand why someone would do that. Sounds like abuse of trust to me, if what you say is true. EXACTLY - like some moderator thinks it is their secret project. Maybe I should change my sig file to "FFWA of NE Butt Slesse Up 4 Grabs" or be out there now stashing gear and practicing dry tooling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted October 15, 2003 Author Share Posted October 15, 2003 mattp said: Dru, I agree that your inquiry might have lead to an interesting thread. It was posted in a manner that looked like a private email (the title was "question for Jim Nelson"), and a certain moderator mistook it for such. I'm sorry you put so much thought into something that was removed. Well here it is back! And the title was Question for PMS...now move itto the North Cascades or the Ice Climbing Conditions or the British Columbia forum or all 3 - you see why I posted originally in Climbers Board.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracked Posted October 15, 2003 Share Posted October 15, 2003 That's lame esp cause I was thinking the same thing after seeing that photo. I'd be curious as to the answer, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted October 15, 2003 Share Posted October 15, 2003 Dru said: ...like some moderator thinks it is their secret project. Do you believe in the Area 51 conspiracy, too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracked Posted October 15, 2003 Share Posted October 15, 2003 mattp said: Dru said: ...like some moderator thinks it is their secret project. Do you believe in the Area 51 conspiracy, too? YES! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted October 15, 2003 Share Posted October 15, 2003 Dru said: now move itto the North Cascades or the Ice Climbing Conditions or the British Columbia forum or all 3 - you see why I posted originally in Climbers Board.... Too bad, because your inquiry might better have belonged in the N. Cascades forum, and I doubt that I would have bothered to delete it and it might have gone on to become the BEST THREAD EVER, even if I DID think it looked like something more appropriate for a private email. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted October 15, 2003 Author Share Posted October 15, 2003 mattp said: Dru said: ...like some moderator thinks it is their secret project. Do you believe in the Area 51 conspiracy, too? No but I believe that after getting PMs with threats from certain people after mentioning 1) east face of Mox Pk and 2) SW face of Spectre Peak that there are a group of climbers in Washington who are into the whole black-book keep-it-a-secret don't-let-Colin-find-out-about-it type of BS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted October 15, 2003 Share Posted October 15, 2003 Yes, we've seen enough of that kind of thing to know that what you say is true. I would be surprised to see a moderator delete a thread for that reason, though. If so, they'd deserve to have you "out" their secret project but I guess you'd have to decide if it is so important to you that you want to start into that kind of personal struggle with somebody. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt.Caveman Posted October 15, 2003 Share Posted October 15, 2003 I personally think it was silly to be deleted. Moderators should fucking take a day off. I also think the post was so detailed it seemed silly too. My guess is that you would or might get some vague answer like "Yep, we aided..." But I did ask some similar question like that before. I remember mention of a "good time" and alcohol and beer and whatever. Who knows maybe Kit had some Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayB Posted October 15, 2003 Share Posted October 15, 2003 Dru said: mattp said: Dru said: ...like some moderator thinks it is their secret project. Do you believe in the Area 51 conspiracy, too? No but I believe that after getting PMs with threats from certain people after mentioning 1) east face of Mox Pk and 2) SW face of Spectre Peak that there are a group of climbers in Washington who are into the whole black-book keep-it-a-secret don't-let-Colin-find-out-about-it type of BS. You should out whoever is making such threats. Seriously. Trying to guard alpine lines on public land. What a crock(!) – not only can you not claim that you should be granted deference for the cost and effort that has gone into establishing the route, or that you do not want the line publicized because it hasn’t been cleaned thoroughly enough for a leader competent at the grade to ascend safely, etc, etc – you are essentially trying to “win” a race in which you are the only contestant. Pathetic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted October 15, 2003 Share Posted October 15, 2003 No way. Those guys took beer and alcohol and stuff?? If he really wanted beta, Dru should have asked: what kind of liquor do you need for the 14th pitch? The 15th? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt.Caveman Posted October 15, 2003 Share Posted October 15, 2003 mattp said: No way. Those guys took beer and alcohol and stuff?? If he really wanted beta, Dru should have asked: what kind of liquor do you need for the 14th pitch? The 15th? Yes I think that would have been a little more appropriate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted October 15, 2003 Share Posted October 15, 2003 JayB said: You should out whoever is making such threats. Seriously. Trying to guard alpine lines on public land. What a crock(!) – not only can you not claim that you should be granted deference for the cost and effort that has gone into establishing the route, or that you do not want the line publicized because it hasn’t been cleaned thoroughly enough for a leader competent at the grade to ascend safely, etc, etc – you are essentially trying to “win” a race in which you are the only contestant. Pathetic. I disagree here, Mr. B. Everybody has their own style, and if one guy wants to be secretive about their projects, that is their business. There is a long history of rivalries and secret projects in this sport, and lots of people don't think that is pathetic. If it is not a game that you wish to play, I don't see why you'd want to go on a campaign against other people's fun. I would agree that it is, at best, obnoxious to threaten others who are not willing to protect their secrets. The guy should have kept their mouth shut in the first place (if it was their big mouth that brought the subject to light) or (if it wasn't) they should just accept the reality that there are others out there looking for the same kinds of climbs. But like I said, Dru can decide whether the guy's actions dictate that he goes against that person's wishes, and only part of that answer has to do with the fact that the guy threatened him or was otherwise obnoxious in some manner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt.Caveman Posted October 15, 2003 Share Posted October 15, 2003 Matt give up. JayB is in fact stating the best core argument in this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted October 15, 2003 Share Posted October 15, 2003 But Cavey, Mr. Beckey pulls that kind of stuff all the time. Well, maybe not the threatening part. You're right. The un-named guy is a complete ass and Dru should go out of his way to antagonize the un-named guy whether he wants to or not. And what kind of liquor does this unnamed guy intend to take to Mox? We have a right to know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlpineK Posted October 15, 2003 Share Posted October 15, 2003 Enough of this bitchfest. You want beta? I got beta. I am the owner of Rock and Ice #15 in which there is a long article about the climb. (back in the day when Rock and Ice was a good mag) They aided less than 10 percent of thier moves, maybe a total of 250 feet. They also did a lot of drugs too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cj001f Posted October 15, 2003 Share Posted October 15, 2003 mattp said:Get over it, then go out and climb it, then come back to spray about it. I'm so glad your here to protect us matt! Save us from ourselves! Please do! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klenke Posted October 15, 2003 Share Posted October 15, 2003 My (not so) secret project is a FWA of the Space Needle. I dare you to climb it before me. I dare you. I double dare you. I dare you to knock these copper top batteries off my shoulders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erik Posted October 15, 2003 Share Posted October 15, 2003 i got an idea! why dont you start another thread on the subject instead of complaining about it. as it seems the issue has been hashed out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt.Caveman Posted October 15, 2003 Share Posted October 15, 2003 erik said: i got an idea! why dont you start another thread on the subject instead of complaining about it. as it seems the issue has been hashed out. No need to pms will read it eventually if he wants to. Whether or not he feels the need to respond is up to him.. After seeing AlpineK's response it sums a lot up... Also there were no M ratings back then so that question is pretty much in a land of the lost. My guess is pms doesnt know m2 from m5 unless he reads some sort of online definition. But that would not likely stop him from answering in another rating or fashion. I'll be waiting for him to tell Dru to go play in Kindergarten though. It appears that they were not the only folks looking at the route- mentions of Donini and others.... -RB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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