ryland_moore Posted October 8, 2003 Posted October 8, 2003 Bug not sure how much time you've spent in Glacier, but after spending many summers there, you are taking the JAWS appraoch when it comes to bear attacks. 1) there are very few bear attacks each year in the US. There were more shark attacks in the last few. 2) Most of these attacks were because someone startled the bear, or got in between a bear and cubs. In other words, it appeared to be a threatening position. 3) Pepper spray has worked for me in the past. If you shoot a between the eyes at 40yds. that is charging you, it will still get to you, and maul you before it dies. Also, if you are found guilty of shooting a bear in a national park, expect to go to jail. I just carry pepper spray, have had many bear encounters and never had one attack or even threaten to attack (false charge - quite common). Pansies! Quote
Dru Posted October 8, 2003 Posted October 8, 2003 vegetablebelay said: Formaldehead said: This terrible accident would not have occured if they had only been wearing this. Twenty-two ton loader in the first three gears, reaching a final top speed of 25 kph (15 mph) through a wall of glass and bricks. Why oh why couldn't there be a video? there's a two hour documentary called "Project Grizzly" Quote
Dru Posted October 8, 2003 Posted October 8, 2003 i read a great article once about a guy who decided he would research bears by getting them sensitized to his presence the way Dian Fossey or Jane Goodall sensitized the primates they studied to their presence. His journal was pretty cool. IIRC the entries went from something like "Day 7: Big male growled and bluff-charged to within 20 feet when he scented me" to "Day 119: approached Male #3, who was eating salmon. Pulled salmon out of jaws. Male #3 appeared confused, slowly walked away to get another salmon" Quote
bunglehead Posted October 8, 2003 Posted October 8, 2003 Dru said: vegetablebelay said: Formaldehead said: This terrible accident would not have occured if they had only been wearing this. Twenty-two ton loader in the first three gears, reaching a final top speed of 25 kph (15 mph) through a wall of glass and bricks. Why oh why couldn't there be a video? there's a two hour documentary called "Project Grizzly" That is a GREAT flick! Quote
RuMR Posted October 8, 2003 Posted October 8, 2003 I think its the same guy that was killed, dru... Quote
Ursa_Eagle Posted October 8, 2003 Posted October 8, 2003 reminds me of the far side where the guy is in a bear suit with an open zipper trying to decipher what the bears are saying. the guy eventually figures out the bears are saying "zipper"... Quote
Dru Posted October 8, 2003 Posted October 8, 2003 RuMR said: I think its the same guy that was killed, dru... well, it's not the project grizzly guy, and i don't think its the same desensitizer guy because he was an actual academic funded researcher, not some recovering drug addict. i wish i could remember what book it was! then again a wild animal is never truly predictable, just look at Roy Horn Quote
RuMR Posted October 8, 2003 Posted October 8, 2003 "Among Grizzlies: Living With Wild Bears in Alaska," was written by the guy who was killed...is this the book you are talking about? Quote
AmberBuxom Posted October 8, 2003 Posted October 8, 2003 i saw mention of the deaths two days ago and wondered when someone would bring it up here. when i read about it i immediately thought wtf they out camping during a time the bears are eating everything in sight to put on winter fat? sucks all the same tho. Quote
Dru Posted October 8, 2003 Posted October 8, 2003 RuMR said: "Among Grizzlies: Living With Wild Bears in Alaska," was written by the guy who was killed...is this the book you are talking about? naw, it was a coffee table type book with lots of pictures and then this big block of text. It was sopmething like Bears of North America. It had polar bears and black bears and kermodes and grizzlies. Quote
Bug Posted October 9, 2003 Posted October 9, 2003 ryland_moore said: Bug not sure how much time you've spent in Glacier, but after spending many summers there, you are taking the JAWS appraoch when it comes to bear attacks. 1) there are very few bear attacks each year in the US. There were more shark attacks in the last few. 2) Most of these attacks were because someone startled the bear, or got in between a bear and cubs. In other words, it appeared to be a threatening position. 3) Pepper spray has worked for me in the past. If you shoot a between the eyes at 40yds. that is charging you, it will still get to you, and maul you before it dies. Also, if you are found guilty of shooting a bear in a national park, expect to go to jail. I just carry pepper spray, have had many bear encounters and never had one attack or even threaten to attack (false charge - quite common). Pansies! I don't mean to put you down but I do pity you your attitude. There are guys who spend their lives studying griz in the park and wouldn't go near em without a 45. I lived in MT for 30 years. Between FS, guiding, recreation, miscelaneous forest work, and, oh yeah bear studies under Charles Jonkel and co I will still carry my gun in the face of being called a pansie. Your three summer stays must have been good summer camp experiences. How did pepper spray work for you if you have never been charged? I have been charged. You realize just how good that jail sentence sounds compared to what is barreling toward you. Killing a bear with a 45 is not all that hard. Here's the drill; you play dead like you don't have a gun. If he leaves, you wash your pants. If he acts like he is going to bury you or snack immediately, you blast into the chest as many times as you can. It has worked for two guys I have met. They have scars yes but I didn't have to dig em up to see them. Tell all the ranger rick stories you want. Outside the park, unless you leave food out in the woods, a bear is going to run from you every time. I have seen mommas run with their cubs bawling WAY behind them. Inside the park, they like to linger. "Saaayyyyy, what is that smell? Did he have scrambled eggs for breakfast? Sex last night? Boy it seems like I run into one of these two-leggeds every time I turn around. Where do they all come from?" You will make one spicy meatball. I had the good fortune of meeting a momma bear with a two or three year old and a yearling. She was pretty mean to the older one cause there just wasn't much food around late in that drought year (88?). He probably weighed about 300lbs and she batted him around like a football. She had found the mess tent for the camp of a FS idiot working as foreman of a bridge crew. Nine of us got her to leave for awhile after a few false charges. The cubs split pretty fast. Two of us hung the food we had just brought up and turned around to see the momma's head emerging from the front of the wall tent 50 yrds away. We held still for a minute as she checked out the scents. When she started toward us we yelled. She broke into a full 800 lb run right at us. We dropped into a gully and sprinted down to the other seven guys and we all yelled like banshies as we backed away. At that point in the year, the berries had been gone for two months. The creeks were trickles. Rotten logs turned to dust. There was nothing for them to eat. They were desperate or we never would have seen them. Many bears ventured into the ranches to find food. Some returned to the woods. The park bears ate garbage. Quote
cracked Posted October 9, 2003 Posted October 9, 2003 AmberBuxom said: i saw mention of the deaths two days ago and wondered when someone would bring it up here. when i read about it i immediately thought wtf they out camping during a time the bears are eating everything in sight to put on winter fat? sucks all the same tho. Dunno. I don't feel sympathy for stupid people. This guy got what he was asking for. Props to the bear! Quote
chelle Posted October 9, 2003 Posted October 9, 2003 cracked said: AmberBuxom said: i saw mention of the deaths two days ago and wondered when someone would bring it up here. when i read about it i immediately thought wtf they out camping during a time the bears are eating everything in sight to put on winter fat? sucks all the same tho. Dunno. I don't feel sympathy for stupid people. This guy got what he was asking for. Props to the bear! Dru said: RuMR said: I think its the same guy that was killed, dru... well, it's not the project grizzly guy, and i don't think its the same desensitizer guy because he was an actual academic funded researcher, not some recovering drug addict. i wish i could remember what book it was! then again a wild animal is never truly predictable, just look at Roy Horn Gosh Paul and Dru. That's a pretty shitty attitude about the lives of a photograhper/researcher and his girlfriend. I haven't heard that Tim was a drug addict and if he was and has recovered to become a productive member of society by photographing and defending the habitat of a beautiful and powerful animal then good for him. He put himself in danger for his passion and unfortunately the bears won. I can't believe you guys feel good about yourselves with such callous attitudes. Grow up and get a conscience! Quote
David_Parker Posted October 9, 2003 Posted October 9, 2003 ryland_moore said: Also, if you are found guilty of shooting a bear in a national park, expect to go to jail. So what would be worse, getting mauled by a bear or being mauled by a prison inmate.....ouch! Quote
Dru Posted October 9, 2003 Posted October 9, 2003 It says at the bottom of the NEWS STORY that he got into researching bears to help himself recover from drug dependency.... The guy had a wacky theory. He had some successes, got cocky and got killed. Along with his girlfriend. OOPS!!! Ehmmic maybe you could explain how you think this case is any different than the one reported last week where a self proclaimed "yoga expert" who said yoga would keep him safe from sharks, was standing in water chummed with blood and fish guts, and his leg was bitten off by a shark? "playin with fire dontcha know that you're gonna get burned?" Quote
chelle Posted October 9, 2003 Posted October 9, 2003 I guess I didn't read that far. I already knew who the guy was from his name and just read the description of what happened. Yes, he played with fire and ended up getting burned. I think the two situations are completely different, although both are sad. He wasn't slathered in blood or sitting on a pile of salmon he was trying to keep from a hungy bear. From what I observed in his programs he took precautions but understood the risks he faced since he refused to carry a gun because he thought it was in conflict his fight against poachers and against the law. In the last show I saw I recall he made a comment about how he felt he needed to protect himself more from poachers than from the bears. He'd been out there doing research for 14 years. Obviously he wasn't stupid, the odds of an incident simply caught up with him. Being callous about the loss of life just seems wrong to me. Both you and Cracked were doing just that in a pretty cavalier way. I hope if either of you or someone you care about die in an unfortunate way, that none of us calls you/them stupid and says youthey deserved it. That would show little humanity, no compassion, and no respect for who either of you are. Quote
Muir_Hut Posted October 9, 2003 Posted October 9, 2003 2 humans dead. 2 bears dead. Why feel sorry for the bears? Because the humans chose them more than they chose the humans. Humans have a responsibility to know better. Bears do not. Quote
Dru Posted October 9, 2003 Posted October 9, 2003 PLEASE do not compare me to cracked! but anyways - the only thing i see different between this accident, and, say, derek hersey falling off the steck salathe, is that hersey knew and accepted the risk. this guy, just based on the news story which is all i know of him, seems to have not understood the risk, but believed some sort of self-invented theory about bear psychology. unlike the researcher who spent hundreds of days desensitizing one bear to his presence he was dropped off on island with many bears and little time to get them accustomed to him. maybe he was a cool guy and all but it also sounds like his theories were directly responsible for not only his own death, but that of his gf. i don't think that's so cool. sorry if you knew this guy though. as i say all i know of him is what was in the news story. if you can provide any contrasting details please do so. Quote
ryland_moore Posted October 9, 2003 Posted October 9, 2003 (edited) How did pepper spray work for you if you have never been charged? I have been charged. Bug, if a bear really wants to get you, it will. Pepper spary has been shown to bea deterent and in other cases, just does not work. In my situation, we were in Yellowstone in a BC camp along Shoshone Lake. We had sea kayaked up from Lewis Lake, through the Lweis-Shoshone channel and paddled to our campsite. I had been fishing for Mackinaw all day and we cooked some up. All our gear was hung in a bear bag and we were getting ready to hang another with our clothes that we had cooked the fish in in another bear bag. That is one the young male bear came into the camp. It was me and my girlfriend. He walked around the perimeter of our camp for about 10 minutes. We were down by the lake's edge. He came to wear we had cooked, about 50 yds. from our tent. We were going to get in our sea kayaks and paddle out. As he got closer, maybe 15 yds., I sprayed him with pepper spray. He didn't do anything at first, but the wind, which was at our backs took it right into his face. He snorted and pawed at his face, then took off rather quickly. If you really want to know how to deal with bears in the backcountry, go to this link and click on the TV to download make sure your volume is on so you can hear the commentary. I am sure some of you have seen this one before! Funny Aussies! Edited October 9, 2003 by ryland_moore Quote
PLC Posted October 9, 2003 Posted October 9, 2003 Pepper spray is highly effective against brown and polar bears, but not particularly effective against blacks (bears that is). While the odds of attack are slim, and pepper spray is nice, carrying a gun can't hurt. In the lower 49, a large caliber handgun should suffice. In Alaska, you'll want a shotgun with rifled slugs. Quote
rbw1966 Posted October 9, 2003 Posted October 9, 2003 Dru said: - the only thing i see different between this accident, and, say, derek hersey falling off the steck salathe, is that hersey knew and accepted the risk. this guy, just based on the news story which is all i know of him, seems to have not understood the risk. . . Complete and utter bullshit. Risk of climbing=falling and becoming injured and dying. Risk of continued close proximity to bears=mauled and/or killed. Difference in risk assessment? There is none. Its common sense. This guy knew exactly what he was doing just as much as your example of Heresy. They both accepted the risks. My condolences to his family. I'm with ehmmic on this. I'm also sorry the bears were destroyed as a result of this. Quote
Dru Posted October 9, 2003 Posted October 9, 2003 although both examples carry fatal risks - which is why i chose them - the risk of dying from soloing is by and large a calculated risk. you know your own abilities - you know the route - you know your chances. as far as i can tell you can't calculate a risk the same way when dealing with wild animals. Quote
Ursa_Eagle Posted October 9, 2003 Posted October 9, 2003 ryland_moore said: If you really want to know how to deal with bears in the backcountry, go to this link and click on the TV to download make sure your volume is on so you can hear the commentary. I am sure some of you have seen this one before! Funny Aussies! Thanx for the link Ryland!! I'd been looking for that ever since ad critic went down Quote
bunglehead Posted October 9, 2003 Posted October 9, 2003 Ursa_Eagle said: ryland_moore said: If you really want to know how to deal with bears in the backcountry, go to this link and click on the TV to download make sure your volume is on so you can hear the commentary. I am sure some of you have seen this one before! Funny Aussies! Thanx for the link Ryland!! I'd been looking for that ever since ad critic went down I propose we Oregonians on the site get together for a showing of Project Grizzly With plenty of beer, of course. Quote
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