Short glacier ropes

[westernbackcountryskier]

I was wondering what people thought of taking a twin rope e.g. 8.5-9.2 to do a strictly mountaineering ascent but only taking a 30-35 meter section. I was thinking it would be good as long as other people are on the route (rainier) to assist in a lowering if someone needs to perform first aid to a fallen climbing, but for strict climbing and going light is it a smart move?

[max]

Nah. Maybe i just can't get into the light idea enough, but it seems like a 50 (or even 60 if that's all you've got) meter rope at 8-9 mm is just fine and still plenty light enough.

something I quickly found out when I practiced self extrication and self rescue stuff was that extra rope and long tails could mean the difference between an easy extraction and a shitty/improbable one. I think this especially applies when you're traveling as a two person team.

Plus, if an alpine climb is best suited for a 30 m rope, it's probably just a glacier slog....

[To_The_Top]

I think that on a lower angle glacier climb it is fine, Pro Mountian Sports sells some of these ropes for that reason. They were 30 meters and 8.9 I think for around $85. I have used ropes like these, and it seems like a 60 meter rope gets to be a pain. I even pulled a guy out of a crevasse a few years back with one.

TTT

[tread_tramp]

On two occasions, once on the emmons and once on the kautz, I've done the climb with a 30 meter 8.5 mil rope. Both times I had just one other climber on the rope. I haven't yet tried three on that length of rope, though Jim Nelson (who sold me the rope) thinks it's adequate. As far as depending on other climbers on the route for your safety, I think that you should plan on self-sufficiency, and then if others come to your aid, that much the better. Generally two rope teams is a safe minimum for a glacier climb, especially on the bigger mountains.

[mattp]

I understand the push toward lightening the rope, but I believe that for a party of two, if you are thinking you're self-sufficient, 30m may be a bit short. When traveling in a party of two, I usually climb on a little less than the middle third of the rope, so that each member of the party has enough rope to reach the other to facilitate a rescue -- with a 30m rope, this means you would be less than 10m apart. This is probably enough for most Cascade glaciers, but it is surely a minimum.

[mattp]

Oh yes, and as far as the diameter of 8.5-9.2 goes, I think that is sufficient for "strictly mountaineering."

[Honkeydong]

30 metres of double rope rules for simul-4th classing with a single partner. "Epic? Party of three? Your table is ready sir".

[genepires]

Traveling on a glacier with a short rope is fine as long as no one falls in. But if no one falls in, then why have the rope? You have the rope to protect a climber fallen into a hole. Chances are if you have only a 30m section of rope, then you have either one of three problems:1: like matt p said, you will have only 10m of rope between you climbers if a team of two. Same amount if a team of three. If your bud falls in and is a real fall, you have 30 feet (only 5 body legths) to get in the self arrest position AND stop. The ability to self arrest is not always guaranteed like those poor folks on baker last summer. (I think all three folks went in the crevasse) Even whickwire (I think) wrote about a crevasse fall like this in AK, where they both fell in because they were unable to self arrest. Teams of 2 on a glacier should really evaluate their self arrest and crevasse rescue skills before setting foot on a glacier. 2: Even if you do stop, you also have to be a reasonable distance away from the lip to perform a rescue. So say your bud falls in, you arrest within 3 body legths and that leaves you within 10 feet of the hole and maybe over the crevasse as well. I know a fellow who fell in and his partner was on the bridge too. When the rescuer was digging in a snow anchor, he punched through as well, but luckilly did not fall in. Anyhow, 10 feet of room between anchor and the hole will leave about 6 feet between anchor and actual crevasse wall, where it is safe for the rescuer to walk too. This is not enough room to pull someone out in a timely manner.3: Ok, we'll remedy the problem by putting more room between the climbers. Victim falls in, there is plenty of room to self arrest, anchor is built and you are ready to haul the poor sap. But the rope is far cut into the snow that the rope doesn't budge. Do you drop another line down a cleared lip to haul out? You don't have enough rope now. What if the victim is unconscious? It is a bad idea to haul a unconscious victim (possible broken neck) but you don't have enough rope to check them out, perform cpr or make them right side up. The guy is screwed.

Those short ropes are pretty cool when it comes to the hike in and the climb up when things are going good. But when the sh-t hits the fan, that rope will leave you wanting and worse yet, possibly dead. Whoever considers buying these ropes should give a little more thought as to the possible consequences and the reason for carrying a rope. There are plenty of places to shave weight. For me, I'll bring the whole 50m and leave the lap top with the 24 hour cc.com display behind.

be safe, be well, go big.

[Rodchester]

I use a Blue Water ice floss on some routes 8mm x 37 Meters) and it rocks. I used it on the Ried Headwall this weekend. Certain applications, it rocks.

[imorris]

I heartily agree. In a party of two, it is common sense to have enough line to set up a fresh rope down to the subject. This means having more than a 3rd of the rope on you in coils to account for stretch. You will be happy w/ the extra line, particularly if you are setting up an even mech. ad. system where a pulley is dropped down to the patient (Canadian Drop-Loop style). For me, it the extra weight is more than acceptable, and your rappel/bail options are increased as well.

[Dru]

quote:

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Originally posted by imorris:

particularly if you are setting up an even mech. ad. system where a pulley is dropped down to the patient (Canadian Drop-Loop style).

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Patient? you mean... victim??

[imorris]

It's generally good bed-side manner to call your rescue subject "the patient" rather than "the victim" unless they are clearly dead.