Dru Posted September 22, 2003 Share Posted September 22, 2003 I am posting this subject in SPRAY to keep it out of the reach of ceretain belligerent moderators who are not moderators in SPRAY section (yet). It seems there are some people on this site who like to pretend they are not sprayers and are "only interested in a logical exchange of ideas in a rational manner". They will berate, ban and censor those who do not agree with them Yet, time and time again the subjects they choose for "logical debate" are the ones no one will ever debate logically due to set positions and emotional invoilvement or just plain intransigence, or worse yet deliberate hoaxing. Cases in point: 1) bolting, be it cracks or not. There will never ever be a non emotional bolting debate on this site due to certain nameless persons and assorted faux trollers. So to start a "reasoned debate" on bolting immediately after threatening to ban certain persons who disagree with you seems a bit odd. 2) speed climbing Dan - is a fake. He does not exist. So all these posts about "Let's get to the bottom of this - Dan, we are waiting for your response" are so much waste of time. Yet he's got his own "specially moderated" forum. Other examples of things there are not going to be the long string of sprayless posts about are Muir Hut, Mountaineers fashion trends, politics and global warming. On the other hand take a look at the "North Cascades trivia" thread for what is an exemplary series of something like 80 posts with no spray. with that???? Could it be because it is an exchange of information about certain peaks in the Cascades, without some moderator attempting to win a pointless debate? That there is no argument involved about "my position is right and your position is wrong"? Just wondering And for those who hate pagetops: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt.Caveman Posted September 22, 2003 Share Posted September 22, 2003 Dru there are some historic areas of interest about the mountains with the thread concerning the N Cascades. BTW I recommend getting the Harry Majors prints. They ARE interesting to some and worth the reading. He sent me mine for free but I dont think they are in print. Thank you Harry. History is way more respecable and less interesting to sprayers. That is why you see less spray there. Although I am or may be guilty. As far as the logical debate on bolts- well it only seems as if it is logical when the BOLTERS that are also MODERATORS chime in and remove info that they seem UNFIT. This is not really debatable much IMHO. It seems there is no talk about the bolting issue when it gets heated. There is also no thought process for it here on CC.Com which I have indirectly pointed out for years. But whatever. The - thread- I dont know a thing about it. I never believed it. Apparently some did. Also apparently it touched the heart of one moderator at least. Which likely left this moderator with the want to leave his name in a new discussion to taint his name. I might agree. But to call some of my comments for some subjects out of line is kinda funny with all the above. Thanks for the comments dru. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted September 22, 2003 Author Share Posted September 22, 2003 I guess my main point is some are supposedly down on spraying and on trolling to the point of deleting germane responses from people they do not like.... yet they continually post these "we must debate the bolting of cracks reasonably and yet I am proposing to ban you" topics which topics are themselves, I am arguing, merely another type of trolling. So why get all high and mighty? I am waiting for my parcel from Harry in the mail I will put it next to the photocopies of Beckeys FedEx folder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt.Caveman Posted September 22, 2003 Share Posted September 22, 2003 I guess my main point is some are supposedly down on spraying and on trolling to the point of deleting germane responses from people they do not like.... yet they continually post these "we must debate the bolting of cracks reasonably and yet I am proposing to ban you" topics which topics are themselves, I am arguing, merely another type of trolling. So why get all high and mighty? It could be said better or more simply but it is true. I agree. There are comments about bolting then the moderator removes what he/she sees unfit to the argument. Not necessarily based upon anything other than personal moderator opinion. The argument here is that this is a personal website sometimes. Then the other portrayal is that this is a public website for the better or everyone. It's just really a shitty corner of this website and really a false claim sometimes. It's the minor hitlerism of bolters and their safety sometimes. Read carefully bolt drillers. I am not against you every time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Posted September 22, 2003 Share Posted September 22, 2003 Get a room, pole smokers! Ray- do you still carry the costco-sized tube of Astroglide in your alpine pack? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt.Caveman Posted September 22, 2003 Share Posted September 22, 2003 Charlie said: Get a room, pole smokers! Ray- do you still carry the costco-sized tube of Astroglide in your alpine pack? Only for you. So I can pee in your butt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted September 22, 2003 Author Share Posted September 22, 2003 I think the bolt debate should be settled in person not online Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt.Caveman Posted September 22, 2003 Share Posted September 22, 2003 Dru said: I think the bolt debate should be settled in person not online Me too. Bitch !! I'll win all in person "debates". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayB Posted September 22, 2003 Share Posted September 22, 2003 I think the principal reason that you haven't seen anyone spraying on the N. Cascades Trivia thread is that anyone who did so would rightly be regarded as a worthless sack of shit, and would immediately get a thermonuclear flaming for desecrating a thread with great historical value. As for the recent bolting threads, it seems that the (minimal) standard for participation in some of those discussions is constructive intent - and those that are posting with the intent to do nothing more than berate, belittle, or heap scorn on those that they disagree with don't really meet that standard. I really don't have any problem with that at all. If that's their objective they should feel free to express their thoughts in spray. I have no problem with a format in which 95% of the board is a free for all and there's one forum which is moderated in a manner intended to keep things on topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted September 22, 2003 Author Share Posted September 22, 2003 how is threatening to ban dwayner for stating his dissenting opinion constructive i would spray on that thread but there is nothing spray worthy there just respect and good beta Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon Posted September 22, 2003 Share Posted September 22, 2003 JayB Dru you have this problem of complaining about stuff and spinning it in a way that isn't even true. Nobody is saying "ban dwayner because he doens't like clipping bolts." Read the thread, does someone suggest that? The problem is purposely turning every damn thread you possilby can into a bitch about bolts arguement. How is it your decision whether a thread is worthy of being sprayed on or not? Should everyone be able to start a serious thread and not have you guys trash all over it. Look you even did to YOUR OWN THREAD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayB Posted September 22, 2003 Share Posted September 22, 2003 As far as Dwayner is concerned, I want him to stick around so that he can continue steadfastly discrediting opinions that I disagree with. If he wants to limit his contribution to tiresome diatribes that are only tangentially related to the topic at hand in THE NEW ROCKCLIMBING FORUM I have no problem with PP & Co moderating his ass into oblivion in there. Plenty of room for his comments in another forum, along with all of the disturbingly compulsive insertions of Patch Adams and Taco Bell jpegs he can muster. If he actually has something to add that's germaine to the discussion and does so in a somewhat respectful manner I doubt he'll have any problems in THE NEW ROCKCLIMBING FORUM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted September 22, 2003 Author Share Posted September 22, 2003 jon said: JayB Dru you have this problem of complaining about stuff and spinning it in a way that isn't even true. Nobody is saying "ban dwayner because he doens't like clipping bolts." Read the thread, does someone suggest that? The problem is purposely turning every damn thread you possilby can into a bitch about bolts arguement. How is it your decision whether a thread is worthy of being sprayed on or not? Should everyone be able to start a serious thread and not have you guys trash all over it. Look you even did to YOUR OWN THREAD. the original poster has no unilateral control over whether a thread is "serious" or not. it has to do with the content of the thread. if I start a thread called "Is Jon Gay" even if it is stated by me to be a serious consideration of your homosexual impulses, its a spray thread, and responses to it will be spray, overtly or not. likewise any trolling that attempts to be a serious debate with dwayner or pope about bolts, is a spray thread from the get go. ditto any thread about politics, global warming, Muir Hut, shorts over polypro or Howwitt's cheetah like speed record. No matter if the person who starts any of those threads proclaims "SERIOUS POSTERS ONLY!!! and by the way I disagree with you so we will threaten to ban you!" - which is just a form of trolling anyhow. My problem is not with Mattp for trolling. Trolling is fun. It is with people like Jay_B and offwhite for falling for mattp's troll and behaving as if the thread was somehow serious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allthumbs Posted September 22, 2003 Share Posted September 22, 2003 I knew this was coming - it's been flat around here for a couple of weeks now. What took ya so long Dru? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sk Posted September 22, 2003 Share Posted September 22, 2003 trask said: I knew this was coming - it's been flat around here for a couple of weeks now. What took ya so long Dru? good call Trask Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt.Caveman Posted September 22, 2003 Share Posted September 22, 2003 I think the principal reason that you haven't seen anyone spraying on the N. Cascades Trivia thread is that anyone who did so would rightly be regarded as a worthless sack of shit, and would immediately get a thermonuclear flaming for desecrating a thread with great historical value. Bullshit. I'd spray on it if I thought I wanted to. There just seemed to be no topic or comment worth input. People dont give a fuck. I could log in as Joe Snuffy and spray all over it and you would not know it was me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted September 22, 2003 Share Posted September 22, 2003 Dru, I'm not sure whether it is a good idea for me to respond to your thread or not but here goes. I did not, and have not ever, suggested banning anybody because I disagree with their ideas, unless their "idea" was that they thought they had a right to prevent other people from having a discussion on this board or that they had a right to threaten people or something like that. I don't think I have ever insulted anybody for their stated position on bolting or on politics or any other topic -- unless you think it is insulting to suggest that what somebody else has posted is laughable. If you think that is the case then at least half of your 7000 posts are hideously insulting and you should probably be banned for life. If you don't want to participate in an attempt to have a thoughtful discussion about a controversial topic, that is fine. Simply ignore any such thread. Here, you have your own thread about how mattp is a sprayer in disguise and he wants to ban anybody who disagrees with him. But let's see if you can walk the walk: Have I ever stepped all over somebody's serious discussion, deliberately setting out to turn it into nothing but one-line insults and other assorted garbage? No. Can you cite a single instance where I have tried to shut somebody out of a discussion because I disagreed with their position on some issue? I think not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayB Posted September 22, 2003 Share Posted September 22, 2003 My problem is not with Mattp for trolling. Trolling is fun. It is with people like Jay_B and offwhite for falling for mattp's troll and behaving as if the thread was somehow serious. Stop trolling me Matt, you deceitful bastard!!!! If Mattp was actually trolling I'm sure he'd be very satisfied to see that you were upset enough to come out with a mini-essay in response to his troll. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted September 22, 2003 Author Share Posted September 22, 2003 half of your 7000 posts you have to try harder than that matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted September 22, 2003 Share Posted September 22, 2003 'sorry to short change you there, Dru. Your "vile spew" has in fact totaled more than 7,000 posts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sphinx Posted September 22, 2003 Share Posted September 22, 2003 mattp said: 'sorry to short change you there, Dru. Your "vile spew" has in fact totaled more than 7,000 posts. Like all 10,000+ maybe? Dru, you suck. Eat a dick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted September 22, 2003 Author Share Posted September 22, 2003 let me answer questions with questions... matt why is it that people are spraying on your thread but not on the cascades trivia thread? is it because we like lowell and harry but not you? or is it because your topic is bogus and the other one isn't?or does it have something to do with your attempt to focre a discussion evolving in a natural manner in a direction it does not want to go? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erik Posted September 22, 2003 Share Posted September 22, 2003 dru weak attempt at turning it around. you post what you think is funny into everyones topics, and then the flood flows. you spray everywhere. why should you not spray on lowell's topics, but on everyone elses? you say it comes down to respect? i say bullshit, everyone should get the same respect for their topic. give it up. i doubt you will win in the end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted September 22, 2003 Author Share Posted September 22, 2003 erik back to reading comprehension class... i am saying it has nothing to do with respect or lack of it and everything to do with subject matter you are just jealous that i didnt spray anything about how your index TR should be in the new rock climbing forum!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erik Posted September 22, 2003 Share Posted September 22, 2003 are you the person who decides what topic is worthy and what one is not? i dont think so. and no i think you do alude to the fact that it has everything to do with respect. you lack it, so you use this to justify the fact that just want a reaction out of people. that is dumb! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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