Cattle Grazing

[Sphinx]

[Jim]

Alex said:

Jim said:

Alex said:

no, they dont graze cattle or sheep in the PNW, only in Colorado and Wyoming that I've seen.

 

Way wrong on that one dude.

 

ah sorry, I guess I should have qualified that more. I was thinking solely of national forest land, and I have never seen grazing anywhere in WA state in national forests that I've visited.

 

You may have not seen it but it is active on all National Forests in WA including Mt. Baker- Snoqualmie, Wenatchee, and Colville. It's not as widespread on the west side as the east, but is present. And the moo cows don't get into the highcountry in the cascades but check out on Table Mt. outside Ellensburg. Lots of cow action up there and damaged habitat.

[Dan_Harris]

Greg_W said:

Jim said:

And there is no scientific evidence to show grazing has any beneficial contribution...

 

It's probably good for the cows, there, brainiac. Also, it allows ranchers to run larger herds than just their private holdings could handle - this allows more meat to be put to market, thus keeping the price of beef down.

Doesn't this amount to a gov't subsidy to the beef industry. Seems I read somewhere that grazing fees on public lands are pretty low. Just like logging on NF land is cheaper than having to own and take care of your own forest. Should the Gummint be subsidizing industries? There is a whole different argument.

 

I know there is a long history of grazing in the west. My original post was frustration. I want to get away to the hills and back country, see the native wildlife and instead I see and hear cows. I don't know how cattle affect deer and elk populations, just know that when I see cows i don't see the others. I've enjoyed reading everyones comments.

[Luna]

The short answer is yes, it is a subsidy. There are some great GAO studies that show how much money is spent "managing" grazing allotments on public land, while trashing the habitat. The GAO conclusion was the obvious: remove grazing for a win/win solution, improve habitat conditions and save money.

 

So yes, your tax dollars are going for managing the cows, fees bring in enough to cover about 10% of the costs, and the habitat gets trashed. Some bargin.

[Cpt.Caveman]

Luna said:

The short answer is yes, it is a subsidy. There are some great GAO studies that show how much money is spent "managing" grazing allotments on public land, while trashing the habitat. The GAO conclusion was the obvious: remove grazing for a win/win solution, improve habitat conditions and save money.

 

So yes, your tax dollars are going for managing the cows, fees bring in enough to cover about 10% of the costs, and the habitat gets trashed. Some bargin.

 

Tell yourself "Quit eating Burger Sling, quit eating burger sling!"

 

Folks.

 

To blame it only upon cattle ranchers when they get approval is fucking stupid. There's a 2 way street. Although I bet from luna there will be only "his\her answer" as it always seems it's so black and white.

 

I've seen more damaged habitat from humans...............

[Dan_Harris]

Cpt.Caveman said:

 

I've seen more damaged habitat from humans...............

I have too seen damaged habitat and trash from humans. Packed out my fair share of others garbage. But with humans you can talk to them and try to teach. I have talked to many a person about the results of their actions. Been told to fuck off, but have also been thanked and told the person didn't know or think about their actions. Try talking to a cow.

[babnik]

Dan_Harris said:

Cpt.Caveman said:

 

I've seen more damaged habitat from humans...............

I have too seen damaged habitat and trash from humans. Packed out my fair share of others garbage. But with humans you can talk to them and try to teach. I have talked to many a person about the results of their actions. Been told to fuck off, but have also been thanked and told the person didn't know or think about their actions. Try talking to a cow.

i think the cow is smarter than most humans i have met.

[Winter]

Grazing information from the commun ... errr ... conservation groups.

 

These guys do a lot of great work and know what they're talking about.

[Jim]

Cpt.Caveman said:

Tell yourself "Quit eating Burger Sling, quit eating burger sling!"

 

Folks.

 

To blame it only upon cattle ranchers when they get approval is fucking stupid. There's a 2 way street. Although I bet from luna there will be only "his\her answer" as it always seems it's so black and white.

 

I don't think anyone is blaming the ranchers, they're just trying to make a living, and an increasingly hard one. And if someone is offering free money, what the heck. It's the public agencies and politicians who extend these free lunches that piss me off. While complaining about the waste in school systems they provide livestock grazing at about 10% of the market cost, and taxpayers pick up the tab for administering the program, building fences, livestock watering tanks, weed control (caused by grazing), and paying for "range conservationists" (read: cow managers) on BLM and USFS staff. And they're trashing the public land at the same time.

 

So where's the free market pundits and the "pay as you go" folks on this issue? They seem to melt away for some reason.

[RobBob]

I guess you're for no fed employees, fire roads on public, etc. too.

[Jim]

Here we go again, another tangential issue. WTF are you talking about?

 

At least from Greg I can count on some logical thought process. I don't agree with him but he makes his point clear.

 

We're talking cows man! Those big hooved things. Slow elk. Hooved locust. Cud-chewing, pie spewing, grass eating scurges of the west. Now it you got somin' to say on that, speak up boy.

 

 

[lummox]

i say graze on cattle whenever ya can. big ol slabs of em. wit plenty of salt.