Sphinx Posted August 21, 2003 Posted August 21, 2003 trask said: holy crap, sphincter endorsed something...let's all run out and buy one Fah Q Trask. Eat your mama's bumpernuts, asseyes. Quote
Attitude Posted August 21, 2003 Posted August 21, 2003 Sphinx said: Dru said: and if you swingh them you will find that the sweet spot for the grivel is in the pick where it should be, while for the rage it's somewhere half way up the shaft, not in the head at all Dru, what are you smoking? The Rage feels LIGHTER than the Alp Wing. Heh, heh, heh. You two are saying the same thing. If the sweet spot for the Rage is further down the shaft, then it will feel lighter to swing. R*(dot)Theta from high school physics. You two really need to get a room. Quote
Dru Posted August 21, 2003 Posted August 21, 2003 Attitude said: Sphinx said: Dru said: and if you swingh them you will find that the sweet spot for the grivel is in the pick where it should be, while for the rage it's somewhere half way up the shaft, not in the head at all Dru, what are you smoking? The Rage feels LIGHTER than the Alp Wing. Heh, heh, heh. You two are saying the same thing. If the sweet spot for the Rage is further down the shaft, then it will feel lighter to swing. R*(dot)Theta from high school physics. You two really need to get a room. attitude what the hell i heard you couldnt even find the g spot let alone the sweet spot Quote
Attitude Posted August 21, 2003 Posted August 21, 2003 Dru said: Attitude said: Sphinx said: Dru said: and if you swingh them you will find that the sweet spot for the grivel is in the pick where it should be, while for the rage it's somewhere half way up the shaft, not in the head at all Dru, what are you smoking? The Rage feels LIGHTER than the Alp Wing. Heh, heh, heh. You two are saying the same thing. If the sweet spot for the Rage is further down the shaft, then it will feel lighter to swing. R*(dot)Theta from high school physics. You two really need to get a room. attitude what the hell i heard you couldnt even find the g spot let alone the sweet spot Sweet spot, head, shaft, swinging, wings, rage, smoking.... Sounds like words of love. Quote
Pro Mountain Sports Posted August 21, 2003 Posted August 21, 2003 Not sure if anyone mentioned the new Charlet Moser Aztar? Another real nice looking light tool. Don't know if that is what bigwalling is looking for, but think the lightweight models make good sense for both alpine and some waterfall too. With the steep pick droop of modern ice tools, placing them deep in the ice is not always the best plan. Shallow placements can also be secure, and have the advantage of easier removal. Lighter tools are generally more presice and easier to swing on steep ice. Agree or disagree? Weights can always be added for conditions or taste, in fact Grivel tools have heavier hammer heads, as well as a weight/dampner that can be added. Talk about slick. Quote
Dru Posted August 21, 2003 Posted August 21, 2003 one advantage of having the curve in the shaft near the head (like the quark): when climbing moderately steep snow in dagger mode, holding shaft just below head, your knuckles are not in contact with snow and do not get frozen up! Quote
Attitude Posted August 21, 2003 Posted August 21, 2003 Gearhead said: With the steep droop of modern tools, placing them deep is not always the best plan. Shallow placements can also be secure, and have the advantage of easier removal. Agree or disagree? My GF disagrees. Quote
Sphinx Posted August 21, 2003 Posted August 21, 2003 When I get scared, I plant em as deep as possible. Screw removing them. GearHead, you mean the Axar? Or some other, new tool? The Axar is another fine tool. But why go with the sub-standard pick attachments and aluminum head when you could buy BD? It's essentially the same tool, except for the differences noted. I find it interesting to note that when Craig Luebben tested tools as used in an anchor setup, the BD tools' shafts broke before the pick or head gave away. The same test on Pulsars elongated the AL head and finally the bolts gave way. Go with BD. Quote
Sphinx Posted August 21, 2003 Posted August 21, 2003 Oops, I just checked the Charlet page and you're right, there's a new tool out. Looks butt-ugly, but might even work well. Kinda like a synthesis of Axar and Quark. Interesting. Maybe I can get some off of Barrabes. Quote
Dru Posted August 21, 2003 Posted August 21, 2003 Sphinx said: I find it interesting to note that when Craig Luebben tested tools as used in an anchor setup, the BD tools' shafts broke before the pick or head gave away. The same test on Pulsars elongated the AL head and finally the bolts gave way. Go with BD. more trolling bs.... the pulsars tested were warranty recalls.... you shouldnt use your tools as an anchor anyways! not CEN approved!! Quote
Pro Mountain Sports Posted August 21, 2003 Posted August 21, 2003 "GearHead, you mean the Axar? Or some other, new tool? The Axar is another fine tool. But why go with the sub-standard pick attachments and aluminum head when you could buy BD? It's essentially the same tool, except for the differences noted." Both Axar and Pulsar are old tools, before Rage I believe. A lot of folks did great things with Pulsars, I think they were pretty popular in their day. Choose your poison. Many good choices, not only bd. Hopefully some folks will appreciate the gearheads suggestions. Quote
Bronco Posted August 21, 2003 Posted August 21, 2003 Yeah buddy! if you're experiencing forces strong enough to shear the bolts holding the head on, you've got some big problems! I test drove the Alp wings and Cobra's last winter and they are pretty similar feeling, although I thought the Cobra performed better, but, the Grivels are more bang for your buck and climb ice just fine (way better than my old prophets). I don't really think you can go wrong with the ice tools on the market today, there are so many good ones, just swing a few and see what you like and what feels right. Quote
Pro Mountain Sports Posted August 21, 2003 Posted August 21, 2003 (edited) "When I get scared, I plant em as deep as possible. Screw removing them." So do I, but not on every placement. Just throwing out some ideas about ice tool weight. Of course everyone will decide for themselves what weight is ideal for them. Good that we have choices. Edited August 21, 2003 by Gearhead Quote
cj001f Posted August 21, 2003 Posted August 21, 2003 Gearhead said: A lot of folks did great things with Pulsars, I think they were pretty popular in their day. Check out the Jeff Lowe Ice Climbing bok - he climbed some nice stuff with the Pulsar's Quote
Sphinx Posted August 21, 2003 Posted August 21, 2003 Dru said: Sphinx said: I find it interesting to note that when Craig Luebben tested tools as used in an anchor setup, the BD tools' shafts broke before the pick or head gave away. The same test on Pulsars elongated the AL head and finally the bolts gave way. Go with BD. more trolling bs.... the pulsars tested were warranty recalls.... you shouldnt use your tools as an anchor anyways! not CEN approved!! More trolling. If you ever read Luebben's book you'd know that it was the Prophets that were recalled! Oh, hell, all modern tools are good tools, just buy what you like and what gives you most bang for your buck. Rage, Shrike, Wing, Axar, whatever. But BD still rocks. Quote
Phil K Posted August 22, 2003 Posted August 22, 2003 Well, this topics been pretty well flogged, even got into the required nasty personal attacks for a while, good! Re axe weight: according to published data, the Rage (25.6 oz) and the Alp WIng (25.1 oz) are too close to notice any difference. It's all a matter of how they feel in your hand, balance and swing. And as previously mentioned, all modern high end tools are really excellent. Go swing a few, compare prices, and try not to worry about it any more. It's who's swinging 'em that actually matters. Look at some of the hard routes that were put up with gear that you couldn't give away today. Quote
Sphinx Posted August 22, 2003 Posted August 22, 2003 PHILONIUS said: Well, this topics been pretty well flogged, even got into the required nasty personal attacks for a while, good! Flame wars are cool. Quote
erik Posted August 22, 2003 Posted August 22, 2003 Sphinx said: PHILONIUS said: Well, this topics been pretty well flogged, even got into the required nasty personal attacks for a while, good! Flame wars are cool. NO THEY ARE NOT. KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT TURD BURGLER! Quote
Sphinx Posted August 22, 2003 Posted August 22, 2003 erik said: Sphinx said: PHILONIUS said: Well, this topics been pretty well flogged, even got into the required nasty personal attacks for a while, good! Flame wars are cool. NO THEY ARE NOT. KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT TURD BURGLER! Shove it, ass pirate. Quote
Dru Posted August 22, 2003 Posted August 22, 2003 PHILONIUS said: Well, this topics been pretty well flogged, even got into the required nasty personal attacks for a while, good! Re axe weight: according to published data, the Rage (25.6 oz) and the Alp WIng (25.1 oz) are too close to notice any difference. the published weights are about as reliable as a politician's promises. Quote
iain Posted August 22, 2003 Posted August 22, 2003 Sphinx said:the BD tools' shafts broke before the pick or head gave away. The same test on Pulsars elongated the AL head and finally the bolts gave way. Go with BD. I don't see what this proves. That's like saying the bolt in my crampon will shear before a tine breaks off if I applied that much force. Nevermind that my lower leg would be severed first. Generally I avoid factor-2'ing off my ice tools Quote
Sphinx Posted August 22, 2003 Posted August 22, 2003 iain said: Sphinx said:the BD tools' shafts broke before the pick or head gave away. The same test on Pulsars elongated the AL head and finally the bolts gave way. Go with BD. I don't see what this proves. That's like saying the bolt in my crampon will shear before a tine breaks off if I applied that much force. Nevermind that my lower leg would be severed first. Generally I avoid factor-2'ing off my ice tools It gives you an idea of the relative durability. Tool head recieve a shitload of abuse, and it's obvious that the BD steel heads are stronger than the CM AL heads. Quote
iain Posted August 22, 2003 Posted August 22, 2003 Sphinx said: It gives you an idea of the relative durability. Tool head recieve a shitload of abuse, and it's obvious that the BD steel heads are stronger than the CM AL heads. If the test was a single run until failure it doesn't give you any idea about durability. What are you talking about. Quote
iain Posted August 22, 2003 Posted August 22, 2003 I assume you have all steel carabiners as well then, as they are more durable? Quote
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