Rope solo - Grigri?

[epb]

I did a search in the archives, and didn't come up with much. Anyone know what is up with using a Grigri for roped solos on lead (both aid and free)? I've heard of people using them, but also have been forewarned against it. It seems like it would work well, it is self feeding and has no teeth.

The only argument I've heard against it is that it is a static belay device. However, I don't really see how, since it us designed to stop dynamic falls.

Also, not really an argument against it but...if used, unlike other solo belay devices (with the exception of the Silent Partner), DON'T used a chest harness. If you fall upside down the chest harness doesn't allow for the grigri to orient properly. Is this true?

Anyone reguraly use one for roped solos? or have any insight I would appreciate it.

[Lambone]

It works. The Gri-Gri is static because it does not allow for any rope slipage when it catches a fall. It is designed to be used by a belayer who is mobil, thus providing the dynamic's in the system. The best way to adapt to this with a rope solo set up is to incorporate a dynamic system into the anchor. There are several ways to do that.

The worst thing about soloing with a gri-gri is that it can be a pain in the ass to feed the slack through. Especially if you are halfway up a pitch. One thing I have done to solve this is carry the rope in a bag clipped to the back of my harness. Then you are not fighting with the weight of the slack.

I never used a chest harness, I don't think it would be nesecary. The main thing to worry about is getting a daisy, or your fifi caught up with the lever somehow preventing it from locking up. Avoid cluster fucks around your belay loop, and use a back up knot.

I have heard that you can modify it so the slack feeds better, but I'm not sure how, and I'd be reluctant to.

Hope that helps, have fun!

[epb]

Thanks Lambone.

Was wondering if you care to expand on the idea of clipping a bag to the back of your harness to carry the slack though. Have you had any luck with this? I had tried putting the slack in a backpack with the top wide open, and it worked fairly well...but when it got tangled it became a problem. You come up with something that works (other than letting the slack hang down)?

[ 02-10-2002: Message edited by: epb ]

[Lambone]

Like I said,

"One thing I have done to solve this is carry the rope in a bag clipped to the back of my harness. Then you are not fighting with the weight of the slack."

You are carrying the weight of the rope on your harness anyway right...this set up just makes it much easier to feed the slack though the Gri-Gri.

I wouldn't want to wear a backpack though. That would just increase you chances of spilling head first, and it get in the way of the rack. A rope bag works fine.

[epb]

Yeah. A backpack definetly has its disadvantages (like you said...it gets in the way of the rack). However, 8 pounds of rope though isn't really enough to topple you over backwards. Rope bag from teh back of the harness sounds good, just seemed like it may swing and be slightly axward. You using a rope bucket or just a regular rope bag?

[Lambone]

quote:

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Originally posted by epb:

Yeah. A backpack definetly has its disadvantages (like you said...it gets in the way of the rack). However, 8 pounds of rope though isn't really enough to topple you over backwards. Rope bag from teh back of the harness sounds good, just seemed like it may swing and be slightly axward. You using a rope bucket or just a regular rope bag?

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Ummmm, just a little axward...But better then letting the slack hang on really long pitches.I just used a cheap stuff sack with a clip in loop.

[epb]

>>But better then letting the slack hang on really long pitches<<

Good point. I'll have to give it a try next time I hed out! Thanks Lambone

[Lambone]

Yeah, more importantly is to incorporate some kind of dynamic action into the anchor. This will lower the force put upon the whole system should you take the big whipper!

[Wallstein]

I have used a gri-gri to solo a few walls and I have had very good luck with it. I am yet to fall on it though. I have heard a few stories of the gri-gri not locking up due to a slight pressure being applied to the handle from an arm or another part of the body. If it is real easy aid I will usually clip in a back up knot every 50ft or so. If its hard aid I keep the backup every 25 ft. I use a slip knot as the backup knot because I can tie it one handed and release it one handed. This knot is never weighted because it is used as a stopper knot to lock up the gri-gri. I have never used a rope bag and feeding seems to work fine. I let the rope hang from my harness unless it gets windy out. Then I just coil it and clip it to my harness. I have used a chest harness with the gri-gri and it doesn't seem to make a difference in how it feeds. The reason I use the chest harness is to keep the gri-gri oriented the right way. One of the concerns people have when soloing with this device is it can slide down the spine of the caribiner and in the event of a fall while the gri-gri is in the position it would be loading the biner a weird way and the clip in point of the gri-gri would be loaded improperly. Many people drill a small hole trough the plastic part of the gri-gri and then swage a small loop through it. This loop is then clipped into a chest harness keeping the gri-gri in a vertical position and keeping it from sliding down the spine of the biner. I know people that also cut off the plastic handle to decrease the chance of the handle being depreased which casuses the gri-gri to not luck up. There is a website with pictures that describes all of these modifications. I don't have a link to it but a little searching with google should find it.

The lack of a dynamic belay can be a problem while soloing with a gri-gri but there are a couple of methods to make the belay more dynamic. The easiest way is to incorporate a screamer or two into the belay anchor. I have never used this method but i have talked to people that have and they said it has worked. The other method is to incorporate your haul bags into the belay system. What i have done is fix the belay anchor directly into the haulbag and then backup this up directly to the main anchor. What would happen in the event of a fall is the haulbag would be lifted up a few feet just like a live belayer.

Hope this helps.

[specialed]

I've heard, though haven't tried this method, of wearing a 5 gallon bucket with backpack straps attache dsomehow like a backpack to keep the slack in. I've always just let it dangle and used a clove-hitch backup to keep the weight off my solo device. Maybe someone should invent a half-backpack, half-bucket for solo aiding?

[erik]

quote:

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Originally posted by specialed:

I've heard, though haven't tried this method, of wearing a 5 gallon bucket with backpack straps attache dsomehow like a backpack to keep the slack in. I've always just let it dangle and used a clove-hitch backup to keep the weight off my solo device. Maybe someone should invent a half-backpack, half-bucket for solo aiding?

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hey look someone just did!!!

http://www.blackdiamondequipment.com/rockclimbing/accessories_speed-bag.html

[W]

I think it was Nate Beckwith (a very experienced Yosemite wall climber) who discussed grigri soloing on a website I found. He does not recommend sawing off the handle or especially the flap on the grigri, due to the possibilities of creating sharp surfaces. He also discussed chest harnesses and the gist of his message was to not use the chest harness and just let the grigri hang on your belay biner. The trouble I have found with this is what Wallstein brings up- I noticed that the grigri tends to flop part way down the biner creating the potential in a fall to cross load the biner. I have not done the hole-drilling trick to keep it upright, but it seems that this would not be a bad idea with this in mind. As for running the actual rope through a chest harness, my experience is that the grigri is kind of hard to feed either way. If I have to bust a free move out of my aiders, I usually pull out the amount of slack I think I will need and then go for it. And no matter what you do- ALWAYS use a backup knot and never trust your whole existence to the grigri only. I researched the Wren Industries Soloist and Solo-aid and determined that they are essentially not much different than a grigri, functionally. Also, I have heard that the Silent Partner has been known to not catch a fall immediately, causing some whippers, and therefore it is still recommended that you back tie with this device. And the Silent Partner's bearing device tends to freeze up and not work properly in cold weather. That said, this device is said to be the best thing going if you have any appreciable amount of roped-solo free climbing involved in your climb, as it feeds way easier than any of the above devices- according to those I have asked and in various discussions on websites I have researched.

[Lambone]

RE:-Crossloading the biner issue...

I bet that DMM biner that has the funky plastic part to prevent the biner from spinning around would work well for this.

Charlie Fowler once recomended to tie a munter hitch to the anchor to provide a dynamic anchor system. Use a bomber knot to the main point, then feed out some slack and tie the munterhitch to a secondary point. This will slip some and give you some dynamics before the main anchor point is weighted. This would work well if you wern't using a haulbag.

[Wallstein]

quote:

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Originally posted by Lambone:

RE:-Crossloading the biner issue...

I bet that DMM biner that has the funky plastic part to prevent the biner from spinning around would work well for this.

---

This caribiner does work well except the possibility of fumbling the plastic part when putting the grigri on.

[Yos]

quote:

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Originally posted by Wallstein:

I use a slip knot as the backup knot because I can tie it one handed and release it one handed. This knot is never weighted because it is used as a stopper knot to lock up the gri-gri.

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I usually clip a figure 8 as a backup. By just using a stopper knot you are only backed-up if the grigri merely slips. If the 'biner is cross-loaded and fails you are no longer connected to the rope!

[Wallstein]

quote:

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Originally posted by Yos:

I usually clip a figure 8 as a backup. By just using a stopper knot you are only backed-up if the grigri merely slips. If the 'biner is cross-loaded and fails you are no longer connected to the rope!

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Sorry but that is incorrect. I clip the the slip knot into my harness and it will catch a fall. And I always tie into the end of the rope.

[Lambone]

hmmm...slipknot eh. Never used one. Can you adjust it without untying it? Just curious.

[JayB]

Here's Nate Beckwith's Gri-Gri modification instructions....

http://www.geocities.com/nate_beckwith/grigri.html

[epb]

>>I know people that also cut off the plastic handle to decrease the chance of the handle being depreased which casuses the gri-gri to not luck up.<<

You could just tape it so it can't move.

[Lambone]

Dude, I think you are missing the point here. If the handle can't move, then the gri-gri can't lock. They cut it off so that it can't get caught and thus not be able to lock. Duct taping the handle would only keep the grigri from locking up.

Are you sure that you have used a gri-gri before? I f you haven't than you may want to reconsider soloing with one.

[epb]

I'm just going to erase that post, and forget I ever said that.

BTW - I didn't tape anything. It was a poor sugestion that I'm sure anyone would have figured out if they attempted to do so themselves.

[Cpt.Caveman]

I dont need the gri gri any more. I just free solo naked

[Terminal_Gravity]

First, I have only climbed about a dozen roped solo freeclimb pitches, so I am far from experienced on the subject. That being said I plan to do alot of it this summer and I've been trying to think "out side the box".

Two completly untested ideas I have had are:

connect one screamer to my harness rather than several pieces of pro and...

Rig the silent partner at the bottom of the pitch, well anchored above a carefully puddled or bagged rope that is tied off thereby elimanating the hanging loop ( or "rope bucket") and the weight and bulk at my harness.

Waddaya think...stupid or clever?

[fern]

be careful using a gri-gri for soloing on less than vertical rock. I took a stupid ground-fall from about 25' up because #1) I am dumb, #2) when I fell I was skidding down with the gri-gri between me and the rock, so there was no room for the cam to swing out and lock up. The gri-gri slid down to the back-up knot which put enough rope into the system for me to kiss the ground. #3) I am dumb.

[Yos]

quote:

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Originally posted by Terminal Gravity:

connect one screamer to my harness rather than several pieces of pro and...

Rig the silent partner at the bottom of the pitch

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Placing a screamer on your harness would make your tie in point a cluster-fuck. I've worked a screamer into my anchor before, but the critical point in the system is the protection your falling on. The forces generated are much greater on the protection than on the anchor, so if the pro is really mank, slap a screamer to ease your mind. As for leaving the solo device at the belay, well I've never used the Silent Partner before but it seems it would have numerous problems.

But hell, don't take my word for it. If you can figure out a way to self-belay without having to carry a device and loops of rope...well, the world would be a better place.