Jump to content
  • Announcements

    • olyclimber

      WELCOME TO THE CASCADECLIMBERS.COM FORUMS   02/03/18

      We have upgraded to new forum software as of late last year, and it makes everything here so much better!  It is now much easier to do pretty much anything, including write Trip Reports, sell gear, schedule climbing related events, and more. There is a new reputation system that allows for positive contributors to be recognized,  it is possible to tag content with identifiers, drag and drop in images, and it is much easier to embed multimedia content from Youtube, Vimeo, and more.  In all, the site is much more user friendly, bug free, and feature rich!   Whether you're a new user or a grizzled cascadeclimbers.com veteran, we think you'll love the new forums. Enjoy!
Sign in to follow this  
JGowans

Why Do People Hate America?

Recommended Posts

confused.gifconfused.gif

 

hey AK, you should get laid more often. it should help you relax a little.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

j b, I think you and Mtn Goat should get a room without a computer and consummate your obvious love for each other. wave.gif

 

Many CC.com folks would rejoice if the 2 of you never posted on political topics again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
AlpineK said:

Many CC.com folks would rejoice if the 2 of you never posted on political topics again.

 

 

Here's a bipartisan agreement on that. thumbs_up.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

whatever. i am still not sure what i did that was wrong. perhaps you could clear it up for me?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
j_b said:

whatever. i am still not sure what i did that was wrong. perhaps you could clear it up for me?

 

Existing, logging on to this website, breathing, attempting to think, actually typing what is in you brain, did I say "existing" already? I'm sure trask could think of a few other things you've done wrong.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Greg_W said:

AlpineK said:

Many CC.com folks would rejoice if the 2 of you never posted on political topics again.

 

 

Here's a bipartisan agreement on that. thumbs_up.gif

This is something even nwhikers.net would agree with.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
MtnGoat said:Now I can't say for certain that the mine issue has this problem (with respect to collectivist philosophy, that is), but I can tell the ICC does, as does the UN Human rights charter.

 

See, here we are talking about some issues, and you then have to jump into Ayn Rand's camp and label the rest of the world a bunch of collectivists. Are you trying to imply that the U.S. is the strong Howard Roark that's going against the grain for ideological purposes? Come on man. Your amateur philosophizing is ridiculous to say the least.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Fairweather said:

I haven't had time to read the entire thread....

 

Are you an American citizen yet? If not, I question the validity of your comments.

 

You just validated what I've been trying to portray all along Fairweather. You are indicative of the malaise. Because I'm not American, my opinions are worthless and invalid. If America will only listen to fellow Americans, then doesn't that say something as to why we're in the predicament we're in where, quite honestly, the U.S. is becoming increasingly marginalized and alienated on the global stage. It's quite an affront to the many U.S. citizens that do give a shit about the world beyond U.S. borders and care about the sustainability of the globe and the quality of life for this planet's inhabitants.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
JGowans said:

MtnGoat said:Now I can't say for certain that the mine issue has this problem (with respect to collectivist philosophy, that is), but I can tell the ICC does, as does the UN Human rights charter.

 

See, here we are talking about some issues, and you then have to jump into Ayn Rand's camp and label the rest of the world a bunch of collectivists. Are you trying to imply that the U.S. is the strong Howard Roark that's going against the grain for ideological purposes? Come on man. Your amateur philosophizing is ridiculous to say the least.

 

I didn't read his shit, but being a reader and believer in Ayn Rand's philosophy there is NO way you can make the stretch you made. The U.S. has sold out on it's original principles long ago; more like Peter Keating if we're keeping with the "Fountainhead" metaphor.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Greg_W said:

JGowans said:

MtnGoat said:Now I can't say for certain that the mine issue has this problem (with respect to collectivist philosophy, that is), but I can tell the ICC does, as does the UN Human rights charter.

 

See, here we are talking about some issues, and you then have to jump into Ayn Rand's camp and label the rest of the world a bunch of collectivists. Are you trying to imply that the U.S. is the strong Howard Roark that's going against the grain for ideological purposes? Come on man. Your amateur philosophizing is ridiculous to say the least.

 

I didn't read his shit, but being a reader and believer in Ayn Rand's philosophy there is NO way you can make the stretch you made. The U.S. has sold out on it's original principles long ago; more like Peter Keating if we're keeping with the "Fountainhead" metaphor.

 

That's exactly my point. Trying to paint this in terms of Ayn Rand's objectivism versus collectivism is absurd.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Back to the main subject.

 

It is an undisputed fact that dislike of America in the rest of the world is growing. Why should we care? Well for one thing it's easier to do business with or negotiate with countries that like us. Making everyone happy is both impossible and wrong however forcing the rest of the world to do things our way is equally wrong.

 

The US under Bush has backed out of a bunch of international agreements and started a war that they didn't have widespread consensus over. Now individually there may be merit for what Bush has done, however when you look at the big picture it's easy to see how the rest of the world sees us as dictatorial.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
j_b said:

whatever. i am still not sure what i did that was wrong. perhaps you could clear it up for me?

 

i see that you are not going to explain. a quick perusal will show that up to your intervention in this thread, i have ~ 1/3rd as many posts as JG and RumR, half as many as greg, as many as erik, trask, joshk, and a slew of others. so what eating you? i don't make enough inane comments or punctuate my posts with enough slurring to your taste?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
JGowans said:

Greg_W said:

JGowans said:

MtnGoat said:Now I can't say for certain that the mine issue has this problem (with respect to collectivist philosophy, that is), but I can tell the ICC does, as does the UN Human rights charter.

 

See, here we are talking about some issues, and you then have to jump into Ayn Rand's camp and label the rest of the world a bunch of collectivists. Are you trying to imply that the U.S. is the strong Howard Roark that's going against the grain for ideological purposes? Come on man. Your amateur philosophizing is ridiculous to say the least.

 

I didn't read his shit, but being a reader and believer in Ayn Rand's philosophy there is NO way you can make the stretch you made. The U.S. has sold out on it's original principles long ago; more like Peter Keating if we're keeping with the "Fountainhead" metaphor.

 

That's exactly my point. Trying to paint this in terms of Ayn Rand's objectivism versus collectivism is absurd.

 

I think you can apply Rand's objectivist theories to all things, you just might be sorely disappointed when you do. Things are going the way of society in "Atlas Shrugged" if you ask me - collectivism is becoming the norm and accepted without realization of the true consequences. I'm headed for Galt's Gulch - I hope it's in the North Cascades.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I suggest if you consider the fate of THEMISTOCLES you would understand a great deal more of “why the world hates us” than by any other analysis presented in this thread.

 

PP

bigdrink.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Greg_W said:I think you can apply Rand's objectivist theories to all things, you just might be sorely disappointed when you do. Things are going the way of society in "Atlas Shrugged" if you ask me - collectivism is becoming the norm and accepted without realization of the true consequences. I'm headed for Galt's Gulch - I hope it's in the North Cascades.

 

I used to be a big proponent of objectivism until I read Ayn Rand's biography. She hid behind the veil of her intellect and manipulated those around her especially her husband as evidenced by her numerous episodes of infidelity which she then tried to justify philosophically.

 

Regarding the whole world going collectivist: I think that in every day scenarios that may hold true. Political Correctness to the nth degree is a good example. However, I think that it's not so simple as to just see this as a cosmic happening whereby humankind has aligned itself so. Rather, the masses have been consistently manipulated by the elite using the media as their primary vehicle and ably backed up by power hungry politicians that are more than eager to appease their needs in exchange for much needed campaign funds. That's not really collectivism as such but merely corruption on a grand scale.

 

This house of cards I'm sure will come crashing down someday, but you and I will both be long buried by then. If they've honed cryogenic freezing by then though, I wouldn't mind being in Galt's Gulch either.

 

Who is John Galt? wave.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here is one Pakistani's thought on why they hate America. This man DOES NOT speak for all Pakistanis--just himself.

 

When I went to Pakistan in 1999 to climb a mountain up the Baltoro I spoke to several of the men. Several of them spoke very broken English. I asked one of them what they think of Americans. He replied (as much as I can remember), "I like money. I need money for family. I work hard. My life not easy. You have easy life. I want to have easy life like you. I have anger for Americans becuase I work hard and make not much money. I like your money."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
JGowans said:

That's not really collectivism as such but merely corruption on a grand scale.

 

True, but this is exactly the scenario that was protrayed in "Atlas Shrugged"; corruption on a grand scale behind the scenes of the collectivist ideology.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Peter_Puget said:

I suggest if you consider the fate of THEMISTOCLES you would understand a great deal more of “why the world hates us” than by any other analysis presented in this thread.

 

PP

bigdrink.gif

Are you referring to this quote?

 

'They treat me like a spreading plain tree, to which they run for shelter under in a storm, but which, when the weather is fair, they tear and pluck at as they walk by.'

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Greg_W said:

JGowans said:

That's not really collectivism as such but merely corruption on a grand scale.

 

True, but this is exactly the scenario that was protrayed in "Atlas Shrugged"; corruption on a grand scale behind the scenes of the collectivist ideology.

 

Good point. You're right there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

themistocles shmethismocles

 

[sociobiological rant]

 

if you want to understand why people hate the u.s. why not just look at the innate nature of "us-them" psychology. people will always see their own social group as superior and outsiders as inferior and backwards. xenophobia is just an instinct that drives us to promote our own social group (and our own genes) in competition for resources. people don't like the u.s. because the u.s. is "them". human emotions will always overrule rational thinking. get over it.

 

[\sociobiological rant]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

JG – are these “elites” restrained by national boundaries? Is “hatred for America” merely amanipulated outlet provided by the elites to confuse us (non-elites)?

 

PP bigdrink.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

Sign in to follow this  

×