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JGowans

Why Do People Hate America?

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AlpineK said:

I've never read any Ayn Rand, so I can't comment on her writing.

 

It seems to me that pure individualism and pure capitalism are one and the same thing. Collectivism would be similar to Socialism.

 

I would argue that society is composed of individuals that still have needs as a group. If all you do is try and improve your own situation you will eventually have a negative impact on others.

 

For example I try and sell work and make money for myself. In order to do this I need to hire people to do the work. I pay them for what they do, and I make money. However if an employee hurts themselves on the job it is my social obligation to have industrial insurance for them, and in fact the state requires me to do that. A pure individualist would say the state should make no such requirement.

 

The downside of collectivism is easy to see by looking at communist countries or REI.

 

Somewhere inbetween the collective good and the individual good is the best place for us all to be.

 

You just became the second most huggable liberal I know, Kurt. thumbs_up.gifwave.gif

 

Belated page toppers, to ya. bigdrink.gifsnaf.gif

Edited by Greg_W

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MtnGoat, given your past arugments, you should be stating that the mines don't really affect you, so you shouldn't share the cost of removing them. Shouldn't the people near the mine fields that care about that give money to have the mines removed?

 

no, he would not want to appear to be callous, now would he? smirk.gif

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it's always a pleasure to expose how deeply anti-democratic you fundamentally are

 

Since your definition of "democratic" often seems to basically be nothing more than mob rule without any basis in principle, I'd have to agree.

 

If you however agree on holding some values higher than what a mob wants, then we probably share more in common than you expect. What a bunch of people want must be tested against what it is right to let them do in the first place.

 

For an example of this, no matter how many people vote yes, it's not OK to hold slaves. Is this anti democratic, or merely holding certain values above those of what lots of people might vote is OK?

 

Now what in any of what I've posted here indicates I care wether or not you think I'm callous? Why should anyone want innocents killed by old mines or ordnance?

Edited by MtnGoat

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MtnGoat said:

it's always a pleasure to expose how deeply anti-democratic you fundamentally are

 

Since your definition of "democratic" often seems to basically be nothing more than mob rule without any basis in principle, I'd have to agree.

 

If you however agree on holding some values higher than what a mob wants, then we probably share more in common than you expect. What a bunch of people want must be tested against what it is right to let them do in the first place.

 

For an example of this, no matter how many people vote yes, it's not OK to hold slaves. Is this anti democratic, or merely holding certain values above those of what lots of people might vote is OK?

 

dude your argument is falling apart. you always rail against those that would want to enforce their views upon you and take away your dear 'freedom' and here you are defending minority rule.

 

you know what it's called? opportunism.

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dude your argument is falling apart. you always rail against those that would want to enforce their views upon you and take away your dear 'freedom' and here you are defending minority rule.

 

I'm merely stating a reality.

 

The "minority" running things is only because many of those eligible to vote choose not to do so. If all legally eligible choose to vote, or not to, that's their buisness, but the outcome will not be 100% voting in any case and those who can vote but don't are excercising their right to choose to allow someone else to have a say for them.

 

By the time you take slice of the entire population eligible to vote, then take a slice of that who decide to vote, then take a slice of that who are on the winning side, of course it's not that many people. But it's not due to coercion to not vote.

 

I'd bet that if you look at the percentage of people in any western democracy who actually support the winning candidates, out of the population as a whole, it's a non majority. Having an actual majority run things doesn't seem real likely anywhere. All you can do is make sure the voting is open to all eligible.

Edited by MtnGoat

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MtnGoat said:ay for them.

 

By the time you take slice of the entire population eligible to vote, then take a slice of that who decide to vote, then take a slice of that who are on the winning side, of course it's not that many people. But it's not due to coercion to not vote.

 

Not coersion? What do you call thousands of people getting turned away from the polls or restricted from voting because of felonies they supposedly committed in the state of Texas (!), despite the fact that they did no such thing?

 

It's tough to keep faith in such a cornerstone system of our country when it can be so shamelessly and blatantly manipulated by parties interested in grabbing power (i.e. Bush et al).

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yeah right, the people of this country fully realize that if this iraq war was to be for the benefit of iraqis and that to deflect iraqi anger away from coalition troops, the UN (an independent body) has to control the process of reconstruction and the people suddenly become a mob? you shmuck.

 

the religious right is ~25% of the population and they all vote. the disenfranchised who don't vote, by definition, don't have righteous preconceptions. if there is any significant increase in the number of voters, you are toast.

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"What do you call thousands of people getting turned away from the polls or restricted from voting because of felonies they supposedly committed in the state of Texas (!), despite the fact that they did no such thing?"

 

I call it BS on the first instance (if you're talking about Florida) , and a resolvable problem in the second.

 

Whatever irregularities occur, be they intentional (and illegal) or unintentional, the fact is no law resident on the books says an legal citizen who is not a felon may not vote.

 

It's tough to keep faith in such a cornerstone system of our country when it can be so shamelessly and blatantly manipulated by parties interested in grabbing power (i.e. Bush et al).

 

You mean like Al Gore trying to get the state of florida to change the rules for an election after the fact, and getting slapped down by the supreme court? Or demanding "all votes" be counted, "all the votes" meaning the only certain counties and only certain constituencies, and oh yes, lets count overvotes (and use ESP too?) That kind of manipulation? smile.gif

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yeah right, the people of this country fully realize that if this iraq war was to be for the benefit of iraqis and that to deflect iraqi anger away from coalition troops, the UN (an independent body) has to control the process of reconstruction and the people suddenly become a mob? you shmuck.

 

If they insist a body as ineffective in peacekeeping as the UN take these roles, yup, a mob.

 

 

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MtnGoat said:

yeah right, the people of this country fully realize that if this iraq war was to be for the benefit of iraqis and that to deflect iraqi anger away from coalition troops, the UN (an independent body) has to control the process of reconstruction and the people suddenly become a mob? you shmuck.

 

If they insist a body as ineffective in peacekeeping as the UN take these roles, yup, a mob.

 

again thanks for showing your opportunistic stance.

 

and ineffective relative to what? the colonial administration we installed in iraq? every day we see how effective it is at keeping peace and finding the WMD's.

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MTNGOAT IN DA HOUSE!

 

ok here's what's really going on. the u.s. is really like barney the dinosaur.

 

Barney sings:

I love you, you love me

We're a happy family.

With a great big hug and a kiss from me to you.

Won't you say you love me too?

 

I love you, you love me

We're best friends like friends should be.

With a great big hug and a kiss from me to you.

Won't you say you love me too?

 

... and yet some people don't like barney. it's the same with the u.s.

 

barney.jpg

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Do you guys realize something like 40% of the new posts to this thread are now being made by MtnGoat? That's a pretty good indicator that the thread has gone down the toilet and isn't worth your time anymore. hahaha.gif

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Dear Moderator,

 

My birthday is coming up and all I want is for MtnGoat to be restricted to answering "Yes" or "No" to questions. I know it's 6 weeks early, but I've been good. Please, please, please!!??

 

Greg 'the nice guy' W

 

P.S. Could you also do the same for j_b? I know it's asking a lot, it can count for Christmas, too.

 

P.P.S. Maybe give j_b syphilis, or something, too.

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If this site were run democratically, we could all vote MtnGoat off. However, it's run by an elite band of power mongers that pull the strings and hence he lives to battle another day. Down with the tyranny of cc.com! The majority is no longer shackled and we will petition until we die, or at least for the next 10 minutes anyway.

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JGowans said:

If this site were run democratically, we could all vote MtnGoat off. However, it's run by an elite band of power mongers that pull the strings and hence he lives to battle another day. Down with the tyranny of cc.com! The majority is no longer shackled and we will petition until we die, or at least for the next 10 minutes anyway.

 

Uh, no offence, but I don't know if you're the right man to lead this revolt. Your people haven't exactly been successful at throwing off the oppressive yoke, you know. wink.gif

 

Just fucking with ya. hehehe

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gregm said:

MTNGOAT IN DA HOUSE!

 

ok here's what's really going on. the u.s. is really like barney the dinosaur.

 

Barney sings:

I love you, you love me

We're a happy family.

With a great big hug and a kiss from me to you.

Won't you say you love me too?

 

I love you, you love me

We're best friends like friends should be.

With a great big hug and a kiss from me to you.

Won't you say you love me too?

 

... and yet some people don't like barney. it's the same with the u.s.

 

barney.jpg

 

When was it that Barney started pushing for the dropping of bombs, the wholesale dismissal of public opinion, and a Kremlin-meets-McCarthy-style program of Constitutional subversion and rights removal in the name of "national security"?

 

America could be so great; instead, the coldhearted, bloodthirsty businessmen who've appointed themselves to "lead" us insist on shamelessly making a complete mockery of everything that could be good about the place. When these brutes insist on using fear, false choices, propaganda and lies to destroy the fabric of our freedom, it makes it pretty easy to hate the place.

 

If you lived in a beautiful home in the woods, and suddenly someone put an airport, a WalMart, a truckstop, and a strip mall directly adjacent to your property and surrounded it with stadium lights, would you still want to live there?

 

 

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JoshK said:

Do you guys realize something like 40% of the new posts to this thread are now being made by MtnGoat? That's a pretty good indicator that the thread has gone down the toilet and isn't worth your time anymore. hahaha.gif

Mtn. Pig and j_b the Fool should be limited to like 2 pages of their bullshit and then have the threads locked down. It's not even funny and a total waste of bandwidth. Both of those idiots are total fucking Tools. You 2 suck ass thumbs_down.gif

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JGowans said:

If this site were run democratically, we could all vote MtnGoat off.

This democracy often tries to protect the rights of minorities as well. Otherwise, your green card would have been....

 

....DENIED. wave.gif

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trask said:

JoshK said:

Do you guys realize something like 40% of the new posts to this thread are now being made by MtnGoat? That's a pretty good indicator that the thread has gone down the toilet and isn't worth your time anymore. hahaha.gif

Mtn. Pig and j_b the Fool should be limited to like 2 pages of their bullshit and then have the threads locked down. It's not even funny and a total waste of bandwidth. Both of those idiots are total fucking Tools. You 2 suck ass thumbs_down.gif

 

and instead we should be treated to your countless pages of drivel? smirk.gif and to boot you think you are funny rolleyes.gif

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j_b said:

trask said:

JoshK said:

Do you guys realize something like 40% of the new posts to this thread are now being made by MtnGoat? That's a pretty good indicator that the thread has gone down the toilet and isn't worth your time anymore. hahaha.gif

Mtn. Pig and j_b the Fool should be limited to like 2 pages of their bullshit and then have the threads locked down. It's not even funny and a total waste of bandwidth. Both of those idiots are total fucking Tools. You 2 suck ass thumbs_down.gif

 

and instead we should be treated to your countless pages of drivel? smirk.gif and to boot you think you are funny rolleyes.gif

at least some of my shit is entertaining. your shit makes us want to kill ourselves. you're one bigassed boring mudafukka

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