Cpt.Caveman Posted January 22, 2002 Share Posted January 22, 2002 If everone that tred it got in a line and whizzed down the Deeping Wall to make it fatter would it be better then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daler Posted January 22, 2002 Share Posted January 22, 2002 lambone, As far as guiding goes I would never take anyone to a busy area and expect to be treated as anything but another party of climbers. In the past I have always gone to glacial ice and worked with people in a place where the impact to other climbers is minimal. And if somebody even looked like they wanted to lead where I was set up I would do everything in my power to move ASAP.As far as toproping at marble goes I stated that its pretty much something I expect when I go there. I just try and show up early and beat the masses. There is nothing pompas about being bummed about a climb being picked out, it's just simply that, being bummed. o-well maybe next time. I love to TR things that are over my head but I will always stay away from things that only have limited amounts of ice. And I definately was not trying to imply that hiring a guide is the only way to learn. I don't even think it is the best way by a long shot. Having a mentor in my opinion is still always the most fun and most reliable way of learning. Remember climbing is fun!!!I hope to party with all you fools this weekend. may the beer be chilled, the air brisk and the ice not to thin! dale Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt.Caveman Posted January 22, 2002 Share Posted January 22, 2002 It's pompous is it not? Either way jumbled with everyone else's statements it's easy to misconstrue what is intended... Like I said b4 you cannot police the ice. Some people dont care. My intention about the picked up is that too bad what can you do when some dude from Bolivia that has no clue about CC.com and someone else's ethics is tring Deeping Wall 5 times? I am just stating facts and reality... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daler Posted January 22, 2002 Share Posted January 22, 2002 cling, Stimpy is moving to Vail. dale Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambone Posted January 22, 2002 Author Share Posted January 22, 2002 Look fellas, I'm not tryin to say that I was mad at anybody up there, or that I had a right to climb the ice and they didn't...I was only stating that I was bummed that those folks just marched in and set up top ropes above us. You know what, I would have been glad to say "sure go ahead you've got a big group and need the space." If they had asked if we minded, or if we were planning to lead the upper pitches. But they didn't bother. All I am talking about is a little curtosy here. By the way- we were the first party there that morning. Not that it matters, I just would have felt oblidged to ask if the other party minded if we top roped above them, thats all. They offered to let us lead the second pitch, but that was already after they were all set up with a rope draping down the ice. Unfortunately, it just seems like crowded areas foster a lack of curtosy towards fellow climbers. For instance, a guy who ended up leading the third pitch of Icy later in the day dropped a screw. Another guy in a different party found it, and I saw him showing it off to his buddies in the parking lot. He was going to keep it, and he even knew who dropped it!!!! I marched right up to the dude and asked him why he was planning on keeping it, and pointed out the car of the person who it belonged to. He gave me this "oh yeah, I better preserve my karma" sarcastic attitude and left the screw. Those were Americans. The day before a team of Canadians offered to give us one of their screws because we lost one of ours! They must have felt guilty cause we were rushing so they could climb as well. See the difference here???? It doesn't matter what Nationality they are, some climbers respect others, and some don't give a shit! People who hack the hell out of Icy BC on top rope when you could easily hook your way up just don't give a shit about other climbers...thats all. Leading is a bit different, cause no one wants to fall, myself included. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W Posted January 23, 2002 Share Posted January 23, 2002 While I can empathize with the complaints listed here, and don't condone rude on monopolistic behavior at the crags, I also think that getting worked up about the rudeness of the masses of people vying for the same routes in a popular, compact area with little in the way of novice climbs, and decrying the existence and actions of top-ropers, regardless of how valid the complaints may be- is to me kind of akin to going up to climb the DC on Rainier on a July weekend and coming home complaining about crowds, slow climbers, people knocking rocks down, being kept awake at Muir by noisy people, and that damn RMI group. Dale said it right: if you go to a place like Marble, expect all that you find there; whether or not you find it tolerable is irrelevant if taken in that context. Getting mad about what you find there is like throwing a bag over your own head and then yelling "WHO TURNED OUT THE LIGHTS?!?!?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt.Caveman Posted January 23, 2002 Share Posted January 23, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Lambone: People who hack the hell out of Icy BC on top rope when you could easily hook your way up just don't give a shit about other climbers...thats all. Leading is a bit different, cause no one wants to fall, myself included. I dont get you Lammy? Nobody was talking about you in such a harsh manner. I dont how or why you choose to use nationality either. I just used it becase I met a guy from Ecuador there tring as an example of someone that does not know the "Lillooet\CC.com" supposed dont tr it rules as I will here forward refer to it as. So here it is: Oh yeah BTW that was me with the screw and I dont care about the other climbers. That's why I am so unfriendly.. still no takers on the remove me from the ice dare.. Just a lot of talkers like lamebone. [ 01-22-2002: Message edited by: Cpt.Caveman ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heinouscling Posted January 23, 2002 Share Posted January 23, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Cpt.Caveman: still no takers on the remove me from the ice dare.. Just a lot of talkers like lamebone. [ 01-22-2002: Message edited by: Cpt.Caveman ] So Caveman. You saying you want to dance? -Heinous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt.Caveman Posted January 23, 2002 Share Posted January 23, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Heinouscling: So Caveman. You saying you want to dance? -Heinous All I am saying is that if you try to talk like a pompous person like I should not tr while I am tring something be prepared for the skull fuck with the ice axe. I will certianly be glad to get outright hostile when fucked with. Otherwise you can hang smoke a fatty and drink a brew like a cool brah, and shut your fucking piehole! [ 01-22-2002: Message edited by: Cpt.Caveman ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heinouscling Posted January 23, 2002 Share Posted January 23, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Cpt.Caveman: All I am saying is that if you try to talk like a pompous person like I should not tr while I am tring something be prepared for the skull fuck with the ice axe. I will certianly be glad to get outright hostile when fucked with. Otherwise you can hang smoke a fatty and drink a brew like a cool brah, and shut your fucking piehole! [ 01-22-2002: Message edited by: Cpt.Caveman ] Man alive! Whats with all this violent talk? All I asked is "Do you want to dance?". Its cool, brah. -Heinous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted January 23, 2002 Share Posted January 23, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Cpt.Caveman: If everone that tred it got in a line and whizzed down the Deeping Wall to make it fatter would it be better then If everyone poured beer down Deeping Wall it would make taking the core out of ice screws way better Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heinouscling Posted January 23, 2002 Share Posted January 23, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Dru: If everyone poured beer down Deeping Wall it would make taking the core out of ice screws way better Do you eat your ice screw cores? Hmmm, that could be a good idea. You know, to stay hydrated and all that good shit. -Heinous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markman Posted January 23, 2002 Share Posted January 23, 2002 Rope? Who would use a rope on ice? Sissies. I climb ropeless,so anybody climbing with less style must be panty waist right? P.S. Did I mention I also do it with just one tool... ...and barefoot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allthumbs Posted January 23, 2002 Share Posted January 23, 2002 Markman - Kindergarten just let out? Momma's callin', better run. trask Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philfort Posted January 23, 2002 Share Posted January 23, 2002 quote: Originally posted by markman: Rope? Who would use a rope on ice? Could that be.... sarcasm? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt.Caveman Posted January 23, 2002 Share Posted January 23, 2002 Suggestion for tr haters: Farm some of your own ice somewhere else on private property that way you can have your ice gymn. I get away from the police by climbin' No need for police at the crags. Everyone get in line for the whizz quizz. 9AM saturday at the Deeping Wall and Icy BC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted January 23, 2002 Share Posted January 23, 2002 Markman is Dan Larson. You heard it here first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allthumbs Posted January 23, 2002 Share Posted January 23, 2002 I like Dan Larson. He's a Ranger. Those guys fight and die for our sorry civilian asses. I think his shit don't stink. Hi Dan! trask [ 01-22-2002: Message edited by: trask ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbb Posted January 23, 2002 Share Posted January 23, 2002 When the ice is chandaliered and breakable, TR tons of people is just plain rude. TRing fat plastic ice is great, have at it. But when you start tearing apart a climb to the point where it could collapse in a short warm spell, I'd say there's something wrong. The other way to look at it is where one can easily top rope, someone will. It doesn't matter if lillooet hires ethics police to limit "sensless TR destruction", those climbs will still get bashed up. Therefore, I say fight the crowds until you're good enough to go where it's lead only. ... or just go to the rockies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambone Posted January 23, 2002 Author Share Posted January 23, 2002 Agreed...for instance -the tube on Icy BC is in pitifull shape right now. Dale says hire a guide to learn how to ice climb...(maybe it is in his self intrests to say that.) But my question is why do guides let their clients beat the shit out of Icy BC every weekend? Do they tell them to hook, or do they just not care? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt.Caveman Posted January 23, 2002 Share Posted January 23, 2002 Ok let's get the ice police in here I can't believe people are whining about tring at Marble. If it is too whacked up sorry but like I said b4. You can always hike somewhere else too. Ooh it's too picked out I guess I have to just lay the asshole tone on the line for the gumbies (I'm included as gumby). Nobody owns the ice and you cannot police it. Sure we can try to enforce a rule or set term of what is P.C. but gimme a break. You can yap all you want on the internet but some people dont care. Me included. If I want the Tr on Deeping Wall I will put it up. The usual climber obviously knows and understands respect. If not call him or her on it and deal with it. As far as guided clients go. Well go talk to the guides and clients. Dale questions- What would you do if someone asked to be guided up that climb? If you have negative thoughts about taking clients there why and what would be other alternatives? One thing for sure is that I bet everyone was just trying to have fun but the upset ones never spoke up face to face as usual. They have to air it out here instead of where it should be done. Right where the incidents occur insteading beating your chest saying I am so bad I could have lead but these gumbies were on my route (the most popular ice crag west of the rockies mind you ). At least that is what it sounds like to my ears I have seen bad asses climb 5.12 rock but learn grade 4. So what if they tr. Just because they do is no reason to put them in a lesser category. That is what it looks like as this thread grows. Not everyone has the luxury of hiring a guide or finding ropeguns to lead everything dificult for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heinouscling Posted January 23, 2002 Share Posted January 23, 2002 quote: Originally posted by daler: Just a quick response to the whole Deeping wall issue. First of all leading the deeping wall in this years conditions is not being a "crazy mother Fucker" I led it twice this year and felt totally in control. Grade 6 ice is often much harder and run out than the deeping wall. Although in a area like marble canyon where there are massive amounts of people tring to climb, toproping should be expected, but leaders always have the right of way!! It does bum me out to find a climb like the deeping wall all picked out because it does take away from the challenge on lead, but again I'll just head somewhere else to find virgin hard ice.I agree with the comments that excessive toproping just work against you. But no one should ever step onto the sharpend on ice and not be anything but totally in control. To do otherwise is just stupid. If you want to improve get a mentor or hire a guide and get some honest learning done, toproping grade 5 ice a hundred times ice doesn't teach you much, except that its steep and pumpy. dale remsberg Tis true that leading Deeping wall does not make you a craxy mofo. All it means it that you are willing to assume more risk than others, which is a huge part of climbing in the first place. I disagree partly on the comment regarding excessive TRing. I believe excessive TRing could potentially make a climber more relaxed on the sharpend, due to the climber getting too used to being on a nice, safe TR. I also believe TRing some shit much harder than a climber usually would lead allows that climber to work on his/her technique. TRing Deeping wall is not simply a matter of bashing on what little ice is there. To do it in good style (and to save your picks) requires delicate, graceful usage of the picks and crampons. As for a route getting beat up due to TRing, yea, that sort of sucks. Ok, lets go with this then! I'm willing! NO MORE TRing ON ICE! I have now officially declared it unlawful and it will be entered as such in the Official Ice Climbing Books Of Rules And Good Style. The Mountaineers, as always, shall be the enforcer of this new rule. So it is done and so it shall be!!!! Case Closed!! NOW GO CLIMB SOME ICE YOU CRAZY BASTARDS!!! -Heinous P.S. Dale, you seen Stimpy around lately? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CascadeClimber Posted January 23, 2002 Share Posted January 23, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Cpt.Caveman: One thing for sure is that I bet everyone was just trying to have fun but the upset ones never spoke up face to face as usual. Ray, I think you have it nailed right there. I know that I am guilty of not saying something to the guide when he said he was headed back to Icy BC (though I did not know he was the guide until later). And the woman who accused us carte blanche of being "fucking rude Americans" asked if we were all TRing and then cursed us under her breath as she left. I would have gladly let her lead what I was TRing, it would have been a pleasure to watch. And I bet the kids from UW would have done the same on the third pitch of Icy BC. It is awful damn easy to look down my nose at someone TRing something that I can lead, and to call someone crazy for leading something I can't. What did George Carlin say? Everyone who drives slower than me is an idiot and everyone who drives faster is a maniac. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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