klenke Posted June 19, 2003 Share Posted June 19, 2003 As long as you can force air out by creating a greater pressure of air inside your lungs than the local atmosphere (even if it is going by at 600 mph), then you can breathe out. You can breathe in as long as you can rarify the volume thus created in your lungs when you flex your diaphram at a suitable vigorousness. Air can be forced into the lungs (this is why mouth-to-mouth resuscitation works), so it might be wise to turn your head perpendicular to the air flow. This we've all experienced, like when putting your head out of a car window traveling at a high rate of speed and facing into the wind. You may remember these tough guys on TV about 10 years ago (some religious body builder guys) that used to blow up massive balloons using their lungs. The worry was that they would fail to maintain a lung pressure greater than the significantly increasing back pressure in the filling balloon. The ensuing irruption of air from the balloon back into the lungs can rupture the lungs. At least they said it was a real possibility. Maybe it was exaggerated. I don't know. Oh gee. I'm so sorry Dru. NO PAGETOP FOR YOU!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted June 19, 2003 Share Posted June 19, 2003 Dru said: the quest to be the first unpowered human to break the sound barrier is sort of like the quest for pagetops DAMN YOU KLENKE!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allthumbs Posted June 19, 2003 Share Posted June 19, 2003 heh you engineer cowboys - if a person did freefall and was able to break the sound barrier, would it kill him, or blow out his eardrums or some shit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fence_Sitter Posted June 19, 2003 Share Posted June 19, 2003 Dru said: the quest to be the first unpowered human to break the sound barrier talk about balls the size of watermelons! how does that guy sit down! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klenke Posted June 19, 2003 Share Posted June 19, 2003 trask said: heh you engineer cowboys - if a person did freefall and was able to break the sound barrier, would it kill him, or blow out his eardrums or some shit? This is not so easy to answer, as it would depend on physiological factors that I'm not knowledgeable on (i.e., I'm not a doctor but I have stayed at a Holiday Inn). If a freefaller were to pass through his own sonic cone, would the pressure wave rupture his ear drums? I don't know. I think it might be more dangerous for him to loiter at the barrier and oscillate back and forth across it so that multiple "sonic booms" smacked the ear. This would be like standing right next to a huge speaker and having someone turn it on and off repeatedly to a 150 dB max volume. As for it killing you, I doubt it. Although the aforementioned oscillatory scenario may eventually rupture more than your ear drums. It might be like a high frequency acoustic wave constantly pummelling your body (like the use of acoustic waves to break down kidney stones). What we need is someone like Norman Clyde to pipe in with the physician's point of view. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg_W Posted June 24, 2003 Share Posted June 24, 2003 matosan said: It seems like there are many interpretations of the class 3 and class 4 grades. How does everyone distinguish between these two? It's already defined, look it up...any questions? SHeesh If you don't know when you get there, maybe you should be with the Mountaineers at Mountie Dome in full Gore-TEx and plastics Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt.Caveman Posted June 24, 2003 Share Posted June 24, 2003 These definitions have already been defined over 100 years ago. Why bother to re-define them To make yourself feel better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toast Posted June 24, 2003 Share Posted June 24, 2003 Maybe the real questions is, what's the difference between Class 4 climbing and free soloing? I kinda wondered this as I was making my way up the South Buttress of Cutthroat. There were several pitches where we probably shoulda had a rope out... of course, we probably wouldn't have made the summit if we had. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodchester Posted June 24, 2003 Share Posted June 24, 2003 what's the difference between Class 4 climbing and free soloing? Class 4 climbing is when one is climbing on class 4 rock. It refers to the overall diffculty of the rock. As some here have defined it, some would want a rope/some form of protection on the climbing. It speaks to the difficulty of the climbing. Free soloing has nothing to do with the class of the climb. "Free" means that you do not rely on anything artifical to aid your ascent. So, you do not pull on gear, stand on gear (aiders), or ARGUABLY pull up on trees and roots etc. Free can be done on any level of climb....IF you're good enough. A long time ago they used to have a class 6. This is now refered to as Aid climbing. Or the point at whcih you can no longer free it. Now that can vary and is considerably lower for my fat old ass than for many ropeguns here on this board and out there climbing. That is why in guide book you'll see things like: It is 5.11a or A2+. Or you'll see things like: A3, but it can go free . Solo can mean different things to different poeple. Some view it and use it as climbing unprotected, but you could still have others with you, just not protected or using the same protection system. Say you and a buddy go out and blast the a route in running shoes with no gear or ropes. You're climbing togther in the sense that you are near each other, but there is no way to protect each other from falling or to aid the other's ascent. Some would still call this solo. Others would say (MOST WOULD) that you are climbing alone, with no one else around, or at least that no one is with you. Many would say that it doesn't mean that you are unproteceted. For instance solo aid is obviously protected. "Free solo" is often used to mean that you are climbing with out any aritical aid and that you are alone. However, if you want to get technical, you could be solo and freeing a pitch and still have a protection system. So it does not, by its text, mean that you are unprotected. By that is USUALLY the implication that I get when I hear people use the term. Yes Anyway...just my view and understanding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg_W Posted June 24, 2003 Share Posted June 24, 2003 Rodchester said: However, if you want to get technical, you could be solo and freeing a pitch and still have a protection system. So it does not, by its text, mean that you are unprotected I believe this is referred to as "roped soloing". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fence_Sitter Posted June 24, 2003 Share Posted June 24, 2003 can we just make this go away? this is the biggest eyesore of a thread i have seen here yet... class 3 is easy... class 4 is harder... bla! enough! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodchester Posted June 24, 2003 Share Posted June 24, 2003 I believe this is referred to as "roped soloing". But "roped soloing" is also solo Aid.....I guess you could say "unprotected free solo." The terms can shift meaning with usage and those using the terms. I agree that they are not rigid. Only that one's use may not be the same as another's, in all cases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fence_Sitter Posted June 24, 2003 Share Posted June 24, 2003 Rodchester said: I believe this is referred to as "roped soloing". But "roped soloing" is also solo Aid.....I guess you could say "unprotected free solo." The terms can shift meaning with usage and those using the terms. I agree that they are not rigid. Only that one's use may not be the same as another's, in all cases. who cares what the fuck it is called? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodchester Posted June 24, 2003 Share Posted June 24, 2003 who cares what the fuck it is called? Seems to me that Toast did when he asked the question: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toast Posted June 24, 2003 Share Posted June 24, 2003 I don't really care what it's called... I just have fun doing it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodchester Posted June 24, 2003 Share Posted June 24, 2003 I don't really care what it's called... I just have fun doing it me too... because it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougGeller Posted July 2, 2003 Share Posted July 2, 2003 Class 3 means generally easy scrambling, occasional use of hands and generally no requirement to rope up. Class 4, particularly in the Beckey guides, means the most difficult part of any technical climb usually encountered on the approach to climbs in the N. Cascades. Example: Frozen 45 degree forest duff requiring crampons (left in car); wet heather covered rock with no pro, and so on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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