MtnGoat Posted April 10, 2003 Posted April 10, 2003 "No matter how many people oppose the war, it's still wrong (to oppose)?" Wether the war itself is right or wrong is independent of how many people oppose it or support it. Wether it happens or not, is not independent of support, and wether it's wrong to oppose it is still another matter. In this case, I'd say yes, it was wrong to oppose this war. It's your right to be wrong, however. "Indeed the RIGHT (wing) thing was done. " You are correct. 12 years of inaction and half measures were ended, and actual effective measures are taken. Quote
MtnGoat Posted April 10, 2003 Posted April 10, 2003 "Actually I think he was talking about them upholding laws that he doesn't support. Like the patriot act stuff etc. " I know he was. He's mad about some civil rights but not others. I agree the patriot act has severe problems, but our civil rights extend beyond free speech to freedom of association, freedom to hire who we want, freedom to control the resources we generate with our labor. He only wants to defend some civil rights, I propose we defend them all. Quote
erik Posted April 10, 2003 Posted April 10, 2003 hehe mtngoat i like how you think for me! and make up my mind on what my statements mean! why dont you swing by the office for a couple of months, so i can skip out and go on the road again! i'll spilt my wages with you!!! thanks buddy! Quote
JGowans Posted April 10, 2003 Posted April 10, 2003 MtnGoat said: "No matter how many people oppose the war, it's still wrong (to oppose)?" Wether the war itself is right or wrong is independent of how many people oppose it or support it. Wether it happens or not, is not independent of support, and wether it's wrong to oppose it is still another matter. In this case, I'd say yes, it was wrong to oppose this war. It's your right to be wrong, however. So, if numbers (ie. voters) are not an accurate or relevant enough measure of determining a course of action, and it boils down to one man, isn't that kind of like a dictatorship? Oops. I said it didn't I? Quote
erik Posted April 10, 2003 Posted April 10, 2003 JGowans said: MtnGoat said: "No matter how many people oppose the war, it's still wrong (to oppose)?" Wether the war itself is right or wrong is independent of how many people oppose it or support it. Wether it happens or not, is not independent of support, and wether it's wrong to oppose it is still another matter. In this case, I'd say yes, it was wrong to oppose this war. It's your right to be wrong, however. So, if numbers (ie. voters) are not an accurate or relevant enough measure of determining a course of action, and it boils down to one man, isn't that kind of like a dictatorship? Oops. I said it didn't I? all his rich friends voted too!! dont forget about the legislative branch! Quote
lummox Posted April 10, 2003 Author Posted April 10, 2003 ya know, your vote really counts when your on a jury. but i learned you gotta hide the bigotry to on one. Quote
Off_White Posted April 10, 2003 Posted April 10, 2003 MtnGoat said:You are correct. 12 years of inaction and half measures were ended, and actual effective measures are taken. If 12 years of containment was ineffective, why hasn't the Iraqi military been more capable? Their total strength is nowhere near what it was in Gulf I, and the policy you disparage is directly responsible for the relative cakewalk we've experienced so far. Quote
Cpt.Caveman Posted April 10, 2003 Posted April 10, 2003 PEOPLE WITH POLITCAL OPINIONS ARE DUMB! Yes we should all be like the commies. You have really showed your low brow iq for sure now. What a tool Quote
erik Posted April 10, 2003 Posted April 10, 2003 Cpt.Caveman said: PEOPLE WITH POLITCAL OPINIONS ARE DUMB! Yes we should all be like the commies. You have really showed your low brow iq for sure now. What a tool Quote
MtnGoat Posted April 10, 2003 Posted April 10, 2003 "mtngoat i like how you think for me! and make up my mind on what my statements mean!" You mean you are as upset about the civil rights violations I describe, as you are about the patriot act? Quote
erik Posted April 10, 2003 Posted April 10, 2003 lets start a topic about that and we will discuss it. the thread drift seems to me a ploy by you to alter the attention of your attempt at trying to add your value to what i am saying. Quote
MtnGoat Posted April 10, 2003 Posted April 10, 2003 "So, if numbers (ie. voters) are not an accurate or relevant enough measure of determining a course of action," You're still misquoting me. I said numbers are relevent to determining a course of action, but that wether the action *itself* is moral or not doesn't depend on numbers. What people will do largely depends on how many want to do it. Wether it's moral or not, doesn't. Might results in action, but morality stands alone. "and it boils down to one man, isn't that kind of like a dictatorship? Oops. I said it didn't I?" You mean when there was a Dem president with a Dem congress and a Dem house, you complained just as much about one party rule and one man with so much power? Quote
ryland_moore Posted April 10, 2003 Posted April 10, 2003 This thread is an exact duplicate of the South Park Episode on Comedy Central last night. Watch the rerun later this week, you will be amazed at how parallel this conversation is to the episode! Quote
MtnGoat Posted April 10, 2003 Posted April 10, 2003 "the thread drift seems to me a ploy by you to alter the attention of your attempt at trying to add your value to what i am saying." A "ploy"? You think I'm trying to trick you? Why is it OK for you drift the thread to civil rights, but a ploy when I take you up on it? Quote
allison Posted April 10, 2003 Posted April 10, 2003 MtnGoat said: You mean when there was a Dem president with a Dem congress and a Dem house, you complained just as much about one party rule and one man with so much power? You might be surprised at how many people from both sides of the aisle would agree that the system works a LOT better if one party doesn't control the whole meathouse. Quote
erik Posted April 10, 2003 Posted April 10, 2003 goat. i am making light on the topic of convo at hand. that is the police action against the protestor, which i find abit agressive, but i am not there so it is only an opinion. you are correct when you try to increase the civil rights to include all faucets. but that is not what we are discussing. maybe "ploy" was the wrong word, but that kinda hints that you are looking for something rail against. and again, you can guess at my political beliefs, but do not try to keyhole me, where you think i stand. generall topic of convo. it is a HUGE discussion. stay focused my friend. Quote
Cpt.Caveman Posted April 10, 2003 Posted April 10, 2003 MtnGoat said: "the thread drift seems to me a ploy by you to alter the attention of your attempt at trying to add your value to what i am saying." A "ploy"? You think I'm trying to trick you? Why is it OK for you drift the thread to civil rights, but a ploy when I take you up on it? He's convinced that if you are not lefty (his secretly loved party) then you must be a hater and loather. It's stupid reasoning. Quote
catbirdseat Posted April 10, 2003 Posted April 10, 2003 A number of people seem to thing all our troubles are over with victory on the battlefield. They are just starting. Now we have to restore law and order and put a stop to all the looting in Iraq. We have to create a police force and establish government. All the various ethnic minorities must be prevented from attacking one another. They must all be convinced that any one group will be favored over another. The tough thing is that the old regime used terror and intimidation to keep everyone in line. Now they have to be made to cooperate with each other on a voluntary basis. A new mindset will have to take root, for democracy to grow. It will be a very hard and long road. I hope that the US has a long enough attention span to get it done right. Quote
specialed Posted April 10, 2003 Posted April 10, 2003 Fortunately, by now we've been through this thing enough times with Bosnia and Afghanistan that its formulaic and we have a decent idea of how to go about it. Quote
allison Posted April 10, 2003 Posted April 10, 2003 specialed said: Fortunately, by now we've been through this thing enough times with Bosnia and Afghanistan that its formulaic and we have a decent idea of how to go about it. Quote
JGowans Posted April 10, 2003 Posted April 10, 2003 Hey Specialed, I like your signature. This was something that Winston Churchill said to Lady Astor back in the day I believe. Quote
Dr_Flash_Amazing Posted April 10, 2003 Posted April 10, 2003 Cpt.Caveman said: MtnGoat said: "the thread drift seems to me a ploy by you to alter the attention of your attempt at trying to add your value to what i am saying." A "ploy"? You think I'm trying to trick you? Why is it OK for you drift the thread to civil rights, but a ploy when I take you up on it? He's convinced that if you are not lefty (his secretly loved party) then you must be a hater and loather. It's stupid reasoning. Thankfully, we have your shining example of love and tolerance to show us all that love exists on the other side of the fence. Quote
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