Greg_W Posted March 21, 2003 Share Posted March 21, 2003 "As thunderclouds gather over the Middle East, America and Britain stand once again shoulder to shoulder preparing to draw the sword in defense of freedom, democracy and human rights. A line has been drawn in the sands of the Arabian desert." --Winston S. Churchill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Flash_Amazing Posted March 21, 2003 Share Posted March 21, 2003 Did you find Bartlett's Quotes on line or some shit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Posted March 21, 2003 Share Posted March 21, 2003 Well if we're reaching back for examples of policy: We have 50 percent of the world's wealth, but only 6.3 percent of its population. . . In this situation we cannot fail to be the object of envy and resentment. Our real task in the coming period is to devise a pattern of relationships which will allow us to maintain this position of disparity. We should cease to talk about the raising of the living standards, human rights, and democratization. The day is not far off when we are going to have to deal in straight power concepts. The less we are then hampered by idealistic slogans, the better." -- George Kennan, Director of Policy Planning of the U.S. Dept. of State, 1948 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iain Posted March 21, 2003 Share Posted March 21, 2003 but we deal in lead, Jim, don't you understand? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg_W Posted March 21, 2003 Author Share Posted March 21, 2003 On the surface, I don't really see a problem with Kennan's assertion. What's the big deal? Why should we be a piggy bank for all the world to take from? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Flash_Amazing Posted March 21, 2003 Share Posted March 21, 2003 Because we exploit the fuck out of the rest of the world? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobBob Posted March 21, 2003 Share Posted March 21, 2003 Greg, you've got to remember that Jim's a central-planner at heart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sk Posted March 21, 2003 Share Posted March 21, 2003 Dr_Flash_Amazing said: Because we exploit the fuck out of the rest of the world? probly not as much as we COULD hey DFA.... what do you think other countries would do to us if they thought they could???? how would you like to live with something like 9/11 happening every week... every day???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Flash_Amazing Posted March 21, 2003 Share Posted March 21, 2003 Muffy_The_Wanker_Sprayer said: Dr_Flash_Amazing said: Because we exploit the fuck out of the rest of the world? probly not as much as we COULD hey DFA.... what do you think other countries would do to us if they thought they could???? how would you like to live with something like 9/11 happening every week... every day???? Good thinking, Muffy. Other people would screw us if we could, so let's screw everyone else! Superb ethics! And what does 911 have to do with it, other than the fact that the more other countries we exploit and stomp on, the more people want to smash a little piece of America? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Posted March 21, 2003 Share Posted March 21, 2003 Well RobBob it's not so simplistic. Maybe you could boil it down to another Hallmark moment, but my point is we supposedly stand for democratic values but regularly squash these to fill up our SUV gas tanks, or whatever the "US interest" is for that day. We shouldn't be expected to bail out every poor country. There's too much human suffering in the world for even us to solve. But maybe with our overwhelming weath and knowledge we could stop meddling so much and cause less harm than we do now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sk Posted March 21, 2003 Share Posted March 21, 2003 the sad fact is that they would want to smash us any way. we are too free spirited. Come on DFA... I think that we should find a way to change the world, change human nature, and evolve. I realy do... but until then I would rather be on the ass kickin' side than the ass kicked side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sk Posted March 21, 2003 Share Posted March 21, 2003 9/11 is just an example of the kind of viloence that I think will come.... and it will be twice as nasty if we let other nations walk all over us. Say what you mean, mean what you say. A man is only as good as his word. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Necronomicon Posted March 21, 2003 Share Posted March 21, 2003 Muffy_The_Wanker_Sprayer said: the sad fact is that they would want to smash us any way. we are too free spirited. Come on DFA... I think that we should find a way to change the world, change human nature, and evolve. I realy do... but until then I would rather be on the ass kickin' side than the ass kicked side. How "evolved"! What would Gahndi have to say about your attitude? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Posted March 21, 2003 Share Posted March 21, 2003 Muffy, I don't think anyone would argue that the US should defend itself with vigor. But to blindly stumble on without examining the US role in the past in the mid-east, or elsewhere, is ignorant. We routinely and conviently forget how things got to the point where they are now. It's a collective amenesia, that somehow Saddam (for instance) got into power on his own (w/o CIA involvement), acquired weapons and technology all by himself (Europe, Russia, US all were in on this one). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobBob Posted March 21, 2003 Share Posted March 21, 2003 How "evolved"! What would Gahndi have to say about your attitude? who cares? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg_W Posted March 21, 2003 Author Share Posted March 21, 2003 RobBob said: How "evolved"! What would Gahndi have to say about your attitude? who cares? Yeah, Ghandi was a pussy. Just kidding, but I agree with Robbob. This isn't India. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sk Posted March 21, 2003 Share Posted March 21, 2003 Jim said: Muffy, I don't think anyone would argue that the US should defend itself with vigor. But to blindly stumble on without examining the US role in the past in the mid-east, or elsewhere, is ignorant. We routinely and conviently forget how things got to the point where they are now. It's a collective amenesia, that somehow Saddam (for instance) got into power on his own (w/o CIA involvement), acquired weapons and technology all by himself (Europe, Russia, US all were in on this one). Necro, I am no saint I have not forgotten. I don't have any kind of amniesa... I don't even realy agree with this war. I think we should have waited. But no one asked me. I am sick over the fact that sons and fathers are being killed. But we can not turn back the clock. so I think we should make our stand. Not blindly, but at least with some integraty. (even if our comander and cheif lacks it) We live here in this country. it is ours... Bush is our president like it or not. Standing arround ringing our hands wishing this hadn't happened isn't going to get us anywhere. if you can not support bush at least support the men and women that have to work for him (talking soldiers here) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iain Posted March 21, 2003 Share Posted March 21, 2003 Gandhi would probably ask WTF are you doing hanging with the Brits? Or alternatively, typical Brits, their manifest destiny tactics still thrive today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allthumbs Posted March 21, 2003 Share Posted March 21, 2003 Greg_W said: RobBob said: How "evolved"! What would Gahndi have to say about your attitude? who cares? Yeah, Ghandi was a pussy. Just kidding, but I agree with Robbob. This isn't India. Ghandi was into watersports. A real piss drinker "Piss pot Pete, 100lbs. a' ball & meat" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted March 21, 2003 Share Posted March 21, 2003 Muffy_The_Wanker_Sprayer said: Dr_Flash_Amazing said: Because we exploit the fuck out of the rest of the world? probly not as much as we COULD what do you think other countries would do to us if they thought they could???? make fun of you like we do already Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Off_White Posted March 21, 2003 Share Posted March 21, 2003 Greg_W said: On the surface, I don't really see a problem with Kennan's assertion. What's the big deal? Why should we be a piggy bank for all the world to take from? Because its a direct contradiction of your Churchill quote. If you embrace Kennan's position, then don't give me any of that horseshit about human rights and democracy, its really all about how to stay on top of the pile. Didn't someone earlier state that people don't hate the US for our values, but rather our failure to uphold them? We act for strategic advantage, but try to claim some moral high ground. Say what you mean or do what you say, you can't fool some of the people, errr, ummm we don't get fooled again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg_W Posted March 21, 2003 Author Share Posted March 21, 2003 Off_White said: Say what you mean or do what you say, you can't fool some of the people, errr, ummm we don't get fooled again. You can't fool a fool, or he's just foolish, some of the time...or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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