Muscle fatigue and running

[Rocksanyone]

When I'm running my legs always fail me before my cardio. After a good solid short run of about six miles on the trail I'm hardly breathing hard but my legs are shot. Could it be that I'm not breathing hard enough! A circulation problem? Comments, suggestions, pills to share???

[Dru]

bad shoes? tight pants?

[Dr.Hook]

I'm no expert but you might wanna try increasing the muscle mass in your legs by lifting weights (squats) or running hills. As far as I know more muscle mass means more recruitment which should increase strength in your legs.

[Dan_Larson]

Sounds good on paper but look at all the great 800 meter on up runners. Thin, very thin dudes ( and gurls).Maybe you just need to incorporate some interval training. Hard stuff like10 x 400meters with a 200 meter jog/ walk in between( 90 second rest or so) Do the 400's at about 70-75% of max speed . This and similar workouts for a couple of months should increase your strength in the legs and the cardio . Not even to mention the hair it will put on your bony ass.

[glassgowkiss]

Rocksanyone said:

When I'm running my legs always fail me before my cardio. After a good solid short run of about six miles on the trail I'm hardly breathing hard but my legs are shot. Could it be that I'm not breathing hard enough! A circulation problem? Comments, suggestions, pills to share???

hardly circulation problem. from what it looks like your cardio is in very good shape. well, depends upon terrain too. start running inclines. second of all it might be a different sort of problem. for one your body might not produce enough acid in the gi track, so your muscles are depleted from protein. your diet might be too low on protein- the end result is the same.

also your muscles (mostly gluteus maximus, which is a primary hip extensor) is deactivated. it happens a lot with people with desk jobs. then you are using your leg muscles to push you forward instead of posterior hip. any pt or chiropractor can test for that. hope it gives you some ideas.

Edited March 16, 2003 by glassgowkiss

[Norman_Clyde]

This is definitely not a cardio or circulation problem. It's muscle fatigue, as you say. Therefore, you need to increase the strength or endurance, or both, of your running muscles. Speed work will make you faster, and will increase your endurance somewhat as well, because your maximum aerobic pace will increase, therefore your standard running pace will not be so close to your max as it was before, therefore you will get a little less fatigued. But if you want to build muscle endurance, you need to concentrate your efforts on muscle work, i.e. long slow distance or weights, or hill running. But this latter is a big cardio challenge as well, and you want to avoid activities that preferentially challenge the parts of you that are already strongest. Long slow distance has been overrated in the past, and it's fairly boring, but a long run of this sort once or twice a week may get you where you want to be.

[glassgowkiss]

Clyde, i kind of disagree with part of your post. the reason is simple. sounds like the person of a fit individual and the problem might be more then just training methods. Just because he/she is going to push harder is not going to make things work better and actually might cause an injury. from what it sounds like i would start looking into diet/gi or neuro/muscular systems. read my post earlier.

Edited March 16, 2003 by glassgowkiss

[Rocksanyone]

Dru said:

bad shoes? tight pants?

Sounds like a crossdressing issue

Ok, let me give you guys a little more info.

I also workout at the gym 5 times a week, legs once a week and use the stationary bike nearly every time I visit for about 20min at a resistance of 13 out of 20. 20 being max.

Last june I had ACL replacment surgery and my leg shrunk a couple inches. But I've been rehabing since day one after the surgery. Just about back to normal. Whatever that is

Yet I can hike up Si in 70-80min packing light (very light)without much of a problem.

Just don't get it........

[Norman_Clyde]

Of course I'm making big generalizations that won't apply to each and every individual. I am an M.D., but what I posted is not so much what I learned in school as what I learned over several years of intense competitive endurance athletics (triathlons, then running). Glasskowkiss, my opinion is that a person's body will respond a lot more readily to training than to supplements or drugs of various kinds. No athlete in the USA has any reason to become deficient in the basic building materials for muscle. I haven't read all the studies, but the recent ones showing that creatine works only show a slight increase in muscle strength in the setting of resistance training. If you compared someone taking creatine and not exercising, versus someone not taking creatine but exercising, I bet that exercise would beat creatine hands down.

 

I still say that if fatigue in your leg muscles is the problem, then work on strengthening your leg muscles. If you're at your physiologic maximum, then this won't make you stronger, but you may be more at risk of injury. If you are careful about how you increase your activity, it should be safe to try.

[glassgowkiss]

norman, i just treated a marathon runner. she is rumnning about 3:10- 3:15. about 3 month ago she started suffering from muscle fatigue amd frequent pain. first of all, her gluts were completly deactivated. a couple of simple muscle activation treatments fixed that part. but the pain did not go away. turned out she had stomach acid deficency, hence she wasn't digesting enough food. now she is taking chydrochloric acid pills and back to running 65 mile per week. in the view of acl surgery i tend to say get stronget, lift some weights and see how it works.

 

[chelle]

Rockanyone - what do you eat before or during your run? Could be that your legs are running out of fuel.

[sketchfest]

I'm no doctor, but I play one on TV, having gotten that out of the way and having spent some marathon-ish time with Norman, I can say from my experience that he knows what he's talking about when it comes to medicine and proper training for endurance activities.

 

I am also a relative new comer to ultra endurance training, but have learned a couple of things lately that have certainly made it easier for me to continue training long after I would have normally stopped. Hydration is obviously the number one key to survival, but I was finding that water, although good, was really not working to keep me properly hydrated, that's when I remember what the good doctor told me right before he left me in the dust, "Try filing your water bottle with Pedialyte" This stuff works better than cytomax or Gatorade plus it seems to keep me from getting hungry as quickly.

 

Sorry so long winded and with no particular point, just wanted to put a plug in for Pedialyte.

 

[Miloshk_Antonopov]

yes pedyialite is also good as water or better when one is training hard and running often. i am not liking gatorade as it is often making me urinate to much and all the time when running. i am finding pedyialite to be good with a strong food concentrat before after a long training cycle of one month or more and before a difficult climb or to of maybe grade V or something. this is good advice for a casual climber to take if he is wanting to climb more hard.

[JoshK]

Milosh, we have all awaited your return. It's good to see you are posting again. Welcome back, old friend.

[Miloshk_Antonopov]

it is now time for me to be out of the library and driving again. it is still many miles back to canada and i am having much to do before starting work this next week!

good will to you friends and may your training come hard!

 

milosh k

[fleblebleb]

Ach ja, comeback of the strongest russian avatar! Whoo-hoo