klenke Posted March 12, 2003 Posted March 12, 2003 So what should we rename it now? Polish Toast. Better yet, Croat Toast rhymes. Quote
j_b Posted March 12, 2003 Posted March 12, 2003 I don't think anyone is suggesting you should wave the french flag but perhaps you should not be annoyed at other people for not doing what we want them to do, especially if you think that our true interest is in them not doing it. Quote
Off_White Posted March 12, 2003 Posted March 12, 2003 Right, like sauerkraut became "liberty cabbage" and the frankfurter was renamed hot dog. Only, we were actually at war with Germany, rather than having a policy disagreement. Next thing you know someone will start referring to Saddam Hussein as "Hitler." Quote
JoshK Posted March 12, 2003 Posted March 12, 2003 sexual_chocolate said: To claim this is some moral stand by the US is a joke. So what's your point? Â Nice way to change my words...I'm going to assum you did it for effect. I never said the U.S. was taking a moral stand. What's the old saying, two wrongs don't make a right? The U.S. may be wrong here, but the worthless french are too. Quote
j_b Posted March 12, 2003 Posted March 12, 2003 What's the old saying, two wrongs don't make a right? Â wrong analogy, which is surprising because you have plenty of practice at choosing 'the lesser of two evils' (assuming you are right about the evil motives of the french) Quote
sexual_chocolate Posted March 12, 2003 Posted March 12, 2003 Why do you think the french are "wrong"? Quote
Dr_Flash_Amazing Posted March 12, 2003 Posted March 12, 2003 sexual_chocolate said: Why do you think the french are "wrong"? Â Because spilling blood is the only correct way to solve an international dispute? Quote
Dru Posted March 12, 2003 Posted March 12, 2003 France does a lot of business with Iraq. I think that indicates that constructive engagement works, you know, like the USA is so big on with China, but refuses to do with Cuba.... compare relative human rights records as documented by Amnesty International and market sizes... Quote
JoshK Posted March 12, 2003 Posted March 12, 2003 Look, I didn't say the french were wrong in saying we shouldn't go to far. For the millionth time, I DONT THINK WE SHOULD GO TO WAR WITH IRAQ EITHER! I also never stated that the french's motives were "evil." All I stated is that it pisses me off that the french are playing their reasons off as moral and pure and passive. In reality the only reason the french don't want a war is because it further secures the U.S. position as a superpower and the french position as an onlooker. Quote
Greg_W Posted March 12, 2003 Posted March 12, 2003 Skisports said: That would be a bit weird " hey ladies do you want to fredom kiss" Â What's weird is that you're asking them. Dive right in, dude. Show some initiative!!! That's the ticket. Quote
Dru Posted March 12, 2003 Posted March 12, 2003 JoshK said: Look, I didn't say the french were wrong in saying we shouldn't go to far. For the millionth time, I DONT THINK WE SHOULD GO TO WAR WITH IRAQ EITHER! I also never stated that the french's motives were "evil." All I stated is that it pisses me off that the french are playing their reasons off as moral and pure and passive. In reality the only reason the french don't want a war is because it further secures the U.S. position as a superpower and the french position as an onlooker. Â josh josh josh, the french are not out to diminish american power, the French are out to PROTECT THEIR INVESTMENT.... Quote
chucK Posted March 12, 2003 Posted March 12, 2003 JoshK said: In reality the only reason the french don't want a war is because it further secures the U.S. position as a superpower and the french position as an onlooker. Â And the real reason the US wants a war is exactly that too. Check out the the Frontline dissection of our reasons for pushing the war that I've plugged here a million times. Â Â Quote
JoshK Posted March 12, 2003 Posted March 12, 2003 Dru said: JoshK said: Look, I didn't say the french were wrong in saying we shouldn't go to far. For the millionth time, I DONT THINK WE SHOULD GO TO WAR WITH IRAQ EITHER! I also never stated that the french's motives were "evil." All I stated is that it pisses me off that the french are playing their reasons off as moral and pure and passive. In reality the only reason the french don't want a war is because it further secures the U.S. position as a superpower and the french position as an onlooker. Â josh josh josh, the french are not out to diminish american power, the French are out to PROTECT THEIR INVESTMENT.... Â Same thing ...it's still not a "moral" reason for no war. Quote
Dru Posted March 12, 2003 Posted March 12, 2003 america inc makes hostile takeover of french assets. war is about control of oil supply. all other arguments demostrably false. Quote
allthumbs Posted March 12, 2003 Author Posted March 12, 2003 I didn't mean to imply we should "buy American." I'm totally in favor of complete free trade. It's hard on certain groups in various countries in the short run- no question about it. If you work in an industry whose product can be made elsewhere at lower cost, you're going to suffer with free trade. Everybody else in the country who uses that product, however, is better off, because they can buy whatever you made for less, and will have disposable money left over for things they wouldn't have been able to afford if they had to pay the old, higher price for your product. Â There's always a WHOLE lot more of the everybody else than there is of you, so the net impact on the national well-being is greatly positive. Â Free trade, without the slightest doubt, produces a higher standard of living for almost everybody, in all countries involved, almost immediately. In the longer term, the displaced people will find new skills and employment and so virtually everybody will be better off. Â So, I'm all for free trade, which is the complete opposite of "Buy American." Â I just want to put a knee in the French crotch in the short term. Â Wine, cheese, designer bottled water and such are pretty easy targets and, I believe, fairly significant quantities in their exports to the US. Â You could add the Germans' and Belgians' crotches- wouldn't hurt my feelings. Â Quote
sexual_chocolate Posted March 12, 2003 Posted March 12, 2003 I'm still trying to figger out why he's so pissed at the french. You'd think his anger would be directed at the instigators of malfeasance.... Â Or is he thinking that the rest of the world should just fall over to prove their "morality"? Quote
sexual_chocolate Posted March 12, 2003 Posted March 12, 2003 Yes I truly am quite furled eyebrows over this french hating going on. Â Maybe if someone explained it to me.... Quote
j_b Posted March 12, 2003 Posted March 12, 2003 Dru said: america inc makes hostile takeover of french assets. war is about control of oil supply. all other arguments demostrably false. Â but the opposition to war is also about whether everyone has to bow to our will. Quote
sexual_chocolate Posted March 12, 2003 Posted March 12, 2003 Maybe the small-town jock and hell-raiser could answer my question? Â He certainly seems to have the credentials.... Quote
sexual_chocolate Posted March 12, 2003 Posted March 12, 2003 Goddamn french, why i oughta stuff a poodle in the wine-tasting orifice, followed by a something or other.... Quote
j_b Posted March 12, 2003 Posted March 12, 2003 sexual_chocolate said: Yes I truly am quite furled eyebrows over this french hating going on. Â Maybe if someone explained it to me.... Â The french (and the germans) are the first proponents of Europe, an economic entity which at the present is bigger than us. An independent, economically mature europe would be a serious challenge to our current monopoly on power. That's the real reason. The media version is they are ungrateful. Quote
sexual_chocolate Posted March 12, 2003 Posted March 12, 2003 Dear sir, why might you be inclined to feel this way, if I may inquire? Quote
JoshK Posted March 12, 2003 Posted March 12, 2003 j_b said: sexual_chocolate said: Yes I truly am quite furled eyebrows over this french hating going on. Â Maybe if someone explained it to me.... Â The french (and the germans) are the first proponents of Europe, an economic entity which at the present is bigger than us. An independent, economically mature europe would be a serious challenge to our current monopoly on power. That's the real reason. The media version is they are ungrateful. Â Last time I checked the US economy is *significantly* larger than the combined EU economies. Â A mature and powerful Europe can only help the US and it's economy, IMHO. Whether GWB knows this or not is beyond me. Â Remember, the US used to be the small one compared to Europe and a strong US has certainly helped Europe a great deal as well. Â The fact sitting beneath all of this is that oil, and the middle east, are a problem for both Europe and the US. The bickering among GWB and half of Europe helps nobody Quote
sexual_chocolate Posted March 12, 2003 Posted March 12, 2003 j_b said: sexual_chocolate said: Yes I truly am quite furled eyebrows over this french hating going on. Â Maybe if someone explained it to me.... Â The french (and the germans) are the first proponents of Europe, an economic entity which at the present is bigger than us. An independent, economically mature europe would be a serious challenge to our current monopoly on power. That's the real reason. The media version is they are ungrateful. Â Well it certainly seems then that they will hold similar diplomatic sway over the "undecided", don't you think? Quote
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