State of the Nation Address

[RobBob]

For the record, while Reagan ran up the debt in part with an arms race, in doing so he caused the Soviet Union to fail.

[DLunkman]

so whats the deal with this hydrogen car thing. Sounds like a good idea if its not just a fairy tale like star wars

 

i liked how bush said he was going to get everybody emplyed. thats a good thing dont you think.

[COL._Von_Spanker]

So is Ireland, are we going to war with them?

 

The Irish are freedom fighters working to expel an oppressive foreign power. IRA should NEVER, EVER disarm!!!

 

Terrorist are terrorists. Just because you agree with the cause doesn't make the terrorism justifiable. In saying the IRA should never disarm is no different than saying Al Queda should never disarm. And by your rational so are the Paletinians. do you support them?

 

I am for the freedom of N. Ireland, but even if England pulls out blood will still be shed due to differences that go beyond the problems that the current english occupation causes.

 

And whoever made the statment about our knowledge about what is going on in Ireland, how the fuck do you know what we know.

[RobBob]

Second, there is the issue of what will happen on the ground in Iraq afterward, in terms of the power vacuum. No one has offered a clear vision of how a transfer of power will occur. We just go in and get rid of the bad guy and drop chocolate bars on the survivors and it's cool.

 

bobinc, you sarcastic little peckerwood, you have a point. It's one I have been trying to make for months, but apparently no one here agrees.

 

Why are the Saudis, Egyptians, assorted Kuwaitis (since they keep killing our citizens) against us? It's our blind, unilateral support of Israel! Now, from strictly a US strategic interest standpoint (forgetting the lobbying efforts of AIPAC and the other Israeli influence heaped on our politicians), does it make sense to factor the Arab world's viewpoint of Israeli occupation of its neighbor's land? Yes, I believe it does.

 

Unless we show some objectivity and deal firmly with Israel (and tell them that the days of colonialism are long gone and get the fuck back to your original borders), then the entire Arab world will continue to believe that we are blindly biased. At this point I have to agree with them. We have sold our souls to AIPAC, and we are paying for it.

 

So, bobinc, even if we dump chocolate bars on the civilians, they are still bound to hate us. What will we do? Kill every last Arab? Or do the right thing in dealing firmly with Israel, so that we can start some productive dialog with the most moderate of the Arabs?

[Greg_W]

So is Ireland, are we going to war with them?

 

The Irish are freedom fighters working to expel an oppressive foreign power. IRA should NEVER, EVER disarm!!!

 

Terrorist are terrorists. Just because you agree with the cause doesn't make the terrorism justifiable. In saying the IRA should never disarm is no different than saying Al Queda should never disarm. And by your rational so are the Paletinians. do you support them?

 

I am for the freedom of N. Ireland, but even if England pulls out blood will still be shed due to differences that go beyond the problems that the current english occupation causes.

 

And whoever made the statment about our knowledge about what is going on in Ireland, how the fuck do you know what we know.

 

Not necessarily, the Prods are incited by the Brits and other Unionists. You watch, if the IRA disarms the Paras will crush the shit out of anyone they suspect and the Irishman will become a second class citizen once again. Down with John Bull!!

[mattp]

I'm sorry to say it RobBob, but I don't think it will happen. Israel is our surrogate asskicker in the region and they more or less serve our interests. They are white people like us, and we have faith that if somebody in Lebanon gets out of hand, Israel will take care of it and we won't have to take direct responsibility. Also, as long as there is instability in the region, we can justify throwing our military might about and in the process we get to tell everybody what to do. A peaceful middle east, where our military is not invited, may in fact be the LAST thing we want. The oil producers could then get their act together and tell us what to do.

[catbirdseat]

Here, here! I agree with what RobBob said. The US has to regain its objectivity with regard to Israel. We had it under Clinton, but lost it under Bush.

[jules]

so whats the deal with this hydrogen car thing. Sounds like a good idea if its not just a fairy tale like star wars

 

 

The hydrogen powered car is a good theory, unfortunately, a viable vehicle is about 15 years of R&D off. In the meantime, the current electric/gasoline hybrid vehicles get ignored, even though they are a much more timely means of reducing our dependence on oil. Big oil wins again!

Edited January 29, 2003 by jules

[willstrickland]

My thoughts:

 

The agenda was clearly crafted to help sell the war. To wit: the world opinion isn't as hawkish as the US, so: Remind everyone that we provide 60% of the world's food aid. Scheme a plan to throw some money at the fight against aids in Africa. Get the world thinking that "hey they're helping people all over, they're not just war mongers".

 

That was the first thing that struck me, the master stroke of setting the "good 'ol uncle sam" theme before addressing the war. I can just imagine the speech writer's selling the aids relief idea. "OK Mr. President, the third idea to help sway world opinion is to come up with a massive charitable push that will cast us in a new light and also help cement your legacy. The african aids crisis is a huge opportunity here, and we think it's the best bet."

 

The hydrogen fuel-cell car section of the speech was a joke. We've had fuel-cell technology since the 60's or earlier- remember the moon landings? Detroit and Japan could easily implement fuel-cell and there are existing prototypes as well as plans for some limited sales in the next few years. The president could implement gas-mileage restrictions NOW, which would both save energy and speed up the development of fuel-cell cars and infrastructure. Detriot ALREADY has the technology to make every vehicle on the road achieve 30+ mpg. The average suburbanite SUV driver gets about 17mpg. He gave lip-service to the idea, but nothing else.

 

I actually think Bush has done a good job, but I disagree with almost all of his policy decisions, particularly tax cuts. Thanks, Shrub, now we're running a deficit again. And don't give me the "well our actual revenues are lower than projected because of the recession". Well, HELLO we have a HUGE outstanding national debt. The "surplus" was simply a little income above our outlay, income that should have gone to lowering the national debt rather than putting an extra $125 bucks in my pocket. And now he wants to cut them again? Wall Street would likely be making a recovery right now if everyone weren't so jittery about the war.

 

My $0.02

[willstrickland]

Unless we show some objectivity and deal firmly with Israel (and tell them that the days of colonialism are long gone and get the fuck back to your original borders), then the entire Arab world will continue to believe that we are blindly biased. At this point I have to agree with them. We have sold our souls to AIPAC, and we are paying for it.

 

Here here! Nicely said RobBob, I'm with you.

[COL._Von_Spanker]

so whats the deal with this hydrogen car thing. Sounds like a good idea if its not just a fairy tale like star wars

 

 

 

The hydrogen powered car is a good theory, unfortunately, a viable vehicle is about 15 years of R&D off. In the meantime, the current electric/gasoline hybrid vehicles get ignored, even though they are a much more timely means of reducing our dependence on oil. Big oil wins again!

 

You know not of what you speak, It's not a theory. The Ballard Fuel cell exists and has had substantial funding from US motor companies. They already have busses that run on it, though not it mass production.

 

[freeclimb9]

The hydrogen powered car is a good theory, unfortunately, a viable vehicle is about 15 years of R&D off.

available today

[COL._Von_Spanker]

Ballard Power Systems

 

 

[ScottP]

I was amazed at how Cheney could do that without moving his lips at all.

[bobinc]

Good points on efficiency. I work in the conservation/renewables field, and it has amazed me what this country has accomplished, given the amount of public funding for the research is but a rounding error in DOE's budget. I mean, $1.3 billion for hydrogen cars... not chump change, but imagine what could be accomplished if we put even 5% of the DOE budget into useful research (rather than spending most of it on nuke-u-lar facilities and weapons).

[jules]

The hydrogen powered car is a good theory, unfortunately, a viable vehicle is about 15 years of R&D off.

available today

OK, you're right, so let me add "...affordable and readily available..."

[freeclimb9]

The hydrogen powered car is a good theory, unfortunately, a viable vehicle is about 15 years of R&D off.

available today

OK, you're right, so let me add "...affordable and readily available..."

And add something about federal tax breaks as incentive. Instead, our goverment allows deductions on HUGE gas guzzlers. Even helping out GM with its hyrdrogen car would be money well spent.

[JGowans]

So is Ireland, are we going to war with them?

 

The Irish are freedom fighters working to expel an oppressive foreign power. IRA should NEVER, EVER disarm!!!

 

You're completely wrong on this one. I've grown up around that crap all my life and likening them to freedom fighters is bullshit. They're common criminals involved in drugs, gun running, extortion, and whatever else you can think of.

 

Yes, the English have no fucking business being there in the first place much the same as them having no business being in Scotland. However, using religion as a crutch to justify criminality is crap.

 

I suggest you send your kids to school in Scotland or Ireland to get a clearer picture of the destructive nature of divisive bigotry.

 

This is one issue that makes my blood boil. Sympathising with those wankers is so wrong. Sympathising with the cause makes total sense but not the method.

[jules]

Good point, freeclimb, and thanks for the article.... interesting.

[bobinc]

Yes, it's good to remember that one of the primary reasons it's hard to get rid of the Troubles once and for all is it's Big Business for a lot of people in a place where unemployment is always in the double digits. Terrorism is profitable, and people need something to do.

[Greg_W]

This is one issue that makes my blood boil. Sympathising with those wankers is so wrong. Sympathising with the cause makes total sense but not the method.

 

Thought there might be a subject of the Crown that would bite. hehehe

[Winter]

I thought Locke's speach on his grandfather showed a much better connection to our domestic issues than GW could ever demonstrate.

 

"I remember back in the day when my father was trying to pull us by our bootstraps, selling wepons to Osama bin Laden and Afghani rebels through the Carlyle Group. We made it, and now I'm dictat ... uhhh ... President. That's the American dream!"

[MtnGoat]

"we're not talking about Clinton,"

 

You may not be, but that seems to be a fortunate exclusion for someone commenting on Bush as a dodger and then complaining about him commiting troops. Clinton didn't serve in the armed forces at all, yet he ordered troops about in many actions, and one war not OK'd by the UN. What was your thinking on his use of the military, if Bush has no buisness using it?

 

 

"and many know Bush's record: Texas Air Guard with a domestic assignment that he went AWOL from for over a year with no repercussions."

 

Are you claiming people in the NG are not actual service members?

 

And I'll ask my other question again, are you saying someone only has moral authority to ask others to do something if they have done it themselves?

[bobinc]

No, we're just saying AWOL is AWOL.

 

And I was wrong -- Cheney had 16 military deferments, not 11.

[MtnGoat]

col von spanker on terrorist nations:

 

"So is Ireland, are we going to war with them? And isn't Saudi Arabia a terrorist nation too? A majority of the WTC fuckers were from there."

 

We've made it clear war is reserved for cases where other methods do not work. Ireland helped with chasing it's terrorists, the Saudis we can also work with without going to that degree, so far anyway.