ChrisT Posted January 29, 2003 Share Posted January 29, 2003 Krakauer also wrote "Eiger Dreams" which I enjoyed very much Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geek_the_Greek Posted January 29, 2003 Share Posted January 29, 2003 Funny that everyone is against Into Thin Air. I thought it was a pretty good read, actually. He painted a pretty harsh image of the commercial guiding operations, which seems to be on the same level as what a lot of cc.com'ers feel. And he didn't mince his words in saying that what he wrote was just his opinion based on what he observed. I guess if a book, just like a band, gets really popular it gets disowned by the original purist fans.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisT Posted January 29, 2003 Share Posted January 29, 2003 I agree Geek. I was afraid to say it for fear of spray but I really liked that book. Even tho it was non-fiction it read like a thriller. I read a lot of the other books on the tragedy by Bokreev(sp?), etc. and none were as good as "Into Thin Air". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
North_by_Northwest Posted January 29, 2003 Share Posted January 29, 2003 I think Krakauer did a great job in writing "Thin Air", it just wasn't that interesting to me. I think it has more to do with my lack of interest in that kind of climbing than his style. Most books about climbing are boring to people who like to read a lot. Â Trask: my suggestion, "Into The Wild", is not about climbing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beck Posted January 29, 2003 Share Posted January 29, 2003 All of the above are great reads, if you like the prison stuff try a book called "An American in the Gulag" buy ?? also try...Steinbecks's "Travels with Charlie" William Whartons "A Midnight Clear" or , if you can find it, "Scumbler" George Orwells' "Down and Out in Paris and London" Rainier Rilkes "All Quiet on the western Front" Rudyard Kiplings "Captains Courageous" (although it's a bit of a kids read) And the best adventure story of all, Rene Daumals "A Night of Serious Drinking"- there are plenty more great adventure reads as far as I'm concerned though, John dos Passos "America" or J.F. Coopers' leatherstocking tales, all worth reading, even Rabelais... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg_W Posted January 29, 2003 Author Share Posted January 29, 2003 Funny that everyone is against Into Thin Air. I thought it was a pretty good read, actually. He painted a pretty harsh image of the commercial guiding operations, which seems to be on the same level as what a lot of cc.com'ers feel. And he didn't mince his words in saying that what he wrote was just his opinion based on what he observed. I guess if a book, just like a band, gets really popular it gets disowned by the original purist fans.... Â Despite getting some major facts screwed up and painting the hero of that debacle as a self-serving prick. Sure it was a great story. "Opinion based on what he observed"? He was passed out in his tent on the South Col when the shit went down. Even after Anatoly Boukreev told him his facts were incorrect and provided photographic proof, Krakauer published his story as is, and continued to berate the guy in public and at AAJ meetings. He's a prick that tried to bring others down because he felt guilty that he didn't/couldn't do shit when it really counted. Â That is a mixture of fact and opinion, flame away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisT Posted January 29, 2003 Share Posted January 29, 2003 Greg: they all had cerebral edema! Even JK was hallucinating. Who knows what the real truth is... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted January 29, 2003 Share Posted January 29, 2003 Funny that everyone is against Into Thin Air. I thought it was a pretty good read, actually. He painted a pretty harsh image of the commercial guiding operations, which seems to be on the same level as what a lot of cc.com'ers feel. And he didn't mince his words in saying that what he wrote was just his opinion based on what he observed. I guess if a book, just like a band, gets really popular it gets disowned by the original purist fans.... Â Despite getting some major facts screwed up and painting the hero of that debacle as a self-serving prick. Sure it was a great story. "Opinion based on what he observed"? He was passed out in his tent on the South Col when the shit went down. Even after Anatoly Boukreev told him his facts were incorrect and provided photographic proof, Krakauer published his story as is, and continued to berate the guy in public and at AAJ meetings. He's a prick that tried to bring others down because he felt guilty that he didn't/couldn't do shit when it really counted. Â That is a mixture of fact and opinion, flame away. Â Greg I couldnt have said it better myself. Selling death epic to armchair mountaineers and who cares what lies you tell to exculpate yourself along the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted January 29, 2003 Share Posted January 29, 2003 "The Long Walk" by Slavomir Rawicz. Polish POWs escape Siberian prison camp and walk across Gobi Desert and Himalayas to India. I got my copy at the gear store in Gold Bar. Â Wasn't that Siberian Prison camp run by Sexual Chocolate's great uncle, or somethin'? Â I dont know about that, but when they cross into Mongolia they find a local chieftan has a watch made by one Pavel Bure - probably the great grandfather of current Russian hockey star Pavel Bure whose Bio says he comes from a lineage of watchmakers. How's that for a weird coincidence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg_W Posted January 29, 2003 Author Share Posted January 29, 2003 Greg: they all had cerebral edema! Even JK was hallucinating. Who knows what the real truth is... Â Boukreev was not hallucinating and he lived through every moment of it. Read his book, "The Climb"; in the most recent edition he includes additional correspondence he had with Krakauer which makes Krakauer look worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisT Posted January 29, 2003 Share Posted January 29, 2003 yes I did read "Climb" and it didn't provide me with any additional insight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg_W Posted January 29, 2003 Author Share Posted January 29, 2003 yes I did read "Climb" and it didn't provide me with any additional insight  The edition that I have, there is an Epilogue that talks about Anatoli's interviews with Krakauer where he expressly told him about the errors in his Outside article but Krakauer published it as is. Krakauer is a dick; you can think what you want. Don't you have some vacuuming to do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisT Posted January 29, 2003 Share Posted January 29, 2003 ok maybe I need to re-read that book. I read it rather fast last summer... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg_W Posted January 29, 2003 Author Share Posted January 29, 2003 ok maybe I need to re-read that book. I read it rather fast last summer... Â When you do, keep in mind that Boukreev's book is written based on FIRST HAND experience from a highly trained high-altitude mountaineer. Whereas, Krakauer's book was written based on SECOND HAND information from lesser-trained individuals and the conjecture of a man who was passed out during the whole incident (himself). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisT Posted January 29, 2003 Share Posted January 29, 2003 ok but facts aside, I still think "Into Thin Air" is a better read Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted January 29, 2003 Share Posted January 29, 2003 I think "Into Thin Air" was the best offerings I have ever read from an author who has been publishing for over 20 years but who in my opinion has generally not been very insightful. It was gripping, and that is why it was such a successful book. Anatoli's book was a very well written defense, but I cannot say whether his story or Krakauer's or anybody else's is correct, and although I didn't try to carefully analyze the "evidence," I would agree in a general way with some of the criticism's offered by Krakauer. I can also say that if you interview any two people from any expedition of that sort, you will find them to tell completely different stories. Â Yes, John Krakauer cashed in on a phenomenon that many of us disapprove of, but I don't understand exactly why it is that he should be vilified for doing so. Exactly what harm has he done to the sport of mountaineering? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sk Posted January 29, 2003 Share Posted January 29, 2003 It is a smother mor polished read. It reads like a novel. I liked both books to tell you the truth. And I thought that it was mostly just sad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg_W Posted January 29, 2003 Author Share Posted January 29, 2003 ok but facts aside, I still think "Into Thin Air" is a better read  I have trouble enjoying it when his credibility is in question. I guess people have gotten used to fluffy writing, so in that respect it might be a better read. In my opinion, Boukreev speaks from the heart of a mountaineer; whereas, Krakauer speaks from the heart of a guy working for a check. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juneriver Posted January 29, 2003 Share Posted January 29, 2003 ok but facts aside, I still think "Into Thin Air" is a better read  Facts aside, Vertical Limit may have been a good movie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg_W Posted January 29, 2003 Author Share Posted January 29, 2003 Exactly what harm has he done to the sport of mountaineering? Â Probably none, Matt. It was the inaccuracies in reporting that bothered me and the personal attacks against Anatoli that occurred later. It made Krakauer sound like a whiney little boy motivated by the guilt of inaction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobBob Posted January 29, 2003 Share Posted January 29, 2003 Maybe we need to start a Krakauer thread. Frankly, IMO he's a pretty damn good writer; his stuff is head and shoulders above most of the other climbing books I've read. Â I'd like to hear why Dru feels the way he does about Into Thin Air...I trust you as someone who has researched the facts. But frankly, from what I gleaned about the face-to-faces between Anatoly and JK, it just sounded to me like a Russian brow-beating delivered to probably an introverted writer. That don't mean shit, in-and-of itself. But I have no inside facts whatsoever---you guys probably know the facts better than me. Greg, I never heard about photographic proof of anything, what was it? Â Hey, after that let's start a thread about whether Bonatti was really vindicated or not. Â Still think JK is a good writer. Eiger Dreams, Club Denali, Into Thin Air were all good reading in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_b Posted January 29, 2003 Share Posted January 29, 2003 I am with you all the way GtG. Krakauer did a great job of bringing forward issues pertaining to climbing big peaks. You'd think that people would support their claim he is a lier if they are going to condemn him in public. Anyhow I don't think the differences in the versions of what happened change his fundamental insights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freeclimb9 Posted January 29, 2003 Share Posted January 29, 2003 ocean-themed adventure stories, all true: "Every man will do his duty" "Adrift: 76 days lost at sea" "In the heart of the sea" "the war journal of major Damon "Rocky" Gause" "rough water" Â Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobBob Posted January 29, 2003 Share Posted January 29, 2003 Back on-topic, Greg, I thought South was a great book. You noted that so many of the men were eager to get back to the war...what I remember was something like a third were killed in it. Â I want to read The Long Walk. Thanks for the tip. Another good one like that is by Jacob Walther. I believe the title is The Story of a Napoleanic Footsoldier. Once you read about their retreat from Russia in winter, you will never forget it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobBob Posted January 29, 2003 Share Posted January 29, 2003 thumbs-up freeclimb. I was gonna suggest Heart of the Sea, the real story of Moby Dick, and more! Also read Ship of Gold in the Deep Blue Sea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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