Terminal_Gravity Posted January 27, 2003 Share Posted January 27, 2003 I for one, don't feel comfortable solo-leading too close to my max ability. I have a serious lack of partners out in the Wallowas and would like to push my limits, but can't. I started climbing on the sharp end and that has always been my preference, so it took an epiphany the other day to realized that I could climb alot more (and a lot harder) if I top roped. I added it up and I have over a thousand feet of trustworthy rope. I could throw in pro on the way down (to stop, maybe 50 feet of stretch) and climb almost any thing out here, all by my lonesome. So, the question is; what is the best, the most butter smooth, lowest friction, easiest on a rope if I fall and the most reliable one-way rope device available? (in your opinion) Thanks in advance - TG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminal_Gravity Posted January 27, 2003 Author Share Posted January 27, 2003 Oops, I guess I should have put this in the Gear Critic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freeclimb9 Posted January 27, 2003 Share Posted January 27, 2003 I'm just imagining how much 1,000' of rope weighs. Anyways, sounds like you want to climb next to a fixed line. If the risk of dynamically loading the rope with the belay device is low, an ascender would work fine. Rig a chest harness to help orient an ascender, and go climb. Something like a Gibbs would give me the most confidence since the chance of it coming off the line is less than other types of ascenders and jumars. A specialty device like Wren Industries' Soloist would be great, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cj001f Posted January 27, 2003 Share Posted January 27, 2003 The problem with Gibbs in particular, and other ascenders, is they have a tendancy to cut the rope if shock loaded. This shouldn't happen when TRing, but depending on where/when you go is more than conceivable. I'd go with the Soloist or the old clove hitch method instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkrueger Posted January 27, 2003 Share Posted January 27, 2003 I just use a BD basic ascender for TR soloing. It feeds smoothly, as I never have to manually feed rope as I have seen others do. It's caught all my falls, so I've developed trust in it. And it's quick and easy to setup. It was also relatively cheap! I've never used a chest harness with it, but then again I don't do too much extreme solo TR climbing either... TR solo climbing is the shit when you have somewhere that's easy to set a TR and want to get some routes in! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freeclimb9 Posted January 27, 2003 Share Posted January 27, 2003 The problem with Gibbs in particular, and other ascenders, is they have a tendancy to cut the rope if shock loaded. Thus the qualifier of "If the risk of dynamically loading the rope with the belay device is low". 2,000-3,000 lbs can be enough load with a Gibbs to cause rope damage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cj001f Posted January 27, 2003 Share Posted January 27, 2003 "Thus the qualifier of "If the risk of dynamically loading the rope with the belay device is low". 2,000-3,000 lbs can be enough load with a Gibbs to cause rope damage." The brain filters out any sort of disclaimer these days, sorry. I've heard (and seen some photo evidence) that puts the threshold much lower, like 1000lbs or so, which is pretty easy to obtain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erik Posted January 27, 2003 Share Posted January 27, 2003 my friend chris uses this ushba mini ascender and he tr solos on it pretty regularly.... no teeth or anything... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminal_Gravity Posted January 27, 2003 Author Share Posted January 27, 2003 Thanks freeclimb & JK, but I am less concerned with a device like a gibbs cutting the rope (for a total failure) in this situation than I am having it partially crush the kern and render the rope suspect for further use. I don't like the friction caused by a silent partner but it may well be the best choice. That funny little Petzl tibloc would certainly hold a TR fall but might rip the mantle, as would other devices that have teeth. CJ, I would prefer not to have to stop climbing to keep re-tieing a hitch, (or moving up a prussick) but thanks for the comment on rope pinching. Clearly, there are several options in ascenders, but which one is the best. Or is there a better option than an ascender like a gri-gri (which I don't own or fully understand for that matter). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salbrecher Posted January 27, 2003 Share Posted January 27, 2003 I second the ushba, works great and just follows along if you clip it right to your harness with a biner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeadSpace Posted January 27, 2003 Share Posted January 27, 2003 ushba basic ascender. no teeth to ding your rope, cams like a grigri. you can also down climb with it, with relative ease. i paid $70 canadain from onsight in squam. i think nelson sells them as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminal_Gravity Posted January 27, 2003 Author Share Posted January 27, 2003 Maybe thats the answer Erik. I have no idea what they look like, but I will try to find a link. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erik Posted January 27, 2003 Share Posted January 27, 2003 http://ushba.com/catalog/access.html#basic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b-rock Posted January 27, 2003 Share Posted January 27, 2003 I've used a Gri-Gri many times, and it has always held my falls. Doesn't feed particulary well, but its easy to pull the slack through with one hand. Oh, I do tie backup cloves every so often. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg_W Posted January 27, 2003 Share Posted January 27, 2003 I've TR soloed with a Petzl Expedition clipped between my harness and a webbing chest harness. It works pretty well and I don't do anything way out of my league. Downside is there's no redundancy unless I add a prusik, but that would foul the smooth feeding of the ascender. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkrueger Posted January 27, 2003 Share Posted January 27, 2003 I don't like the friction caused by a silent partner but it may well be the best choice. That funny little Petzl tibloc would certainly hold a TR fall but might rip the mantle, as would other devices that have teeth.If you were considering lead soloing (which you said you weren't) then the Silent Partner would make a fine choice. But for TR soloing, I think that thing is overkill (not to mention expensive)! If you don't want teeth that may damage the rope, then the Soloist or Ushba would probably do it for you. From what I've seen, the Ushba seems the less complicated of the two and feeds smoother. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted January 27, 2003 Share Posted January 27, 2003 Whatever type of ascender or belay device that you use, I would seriously consider using a back-up of some kind. That could either be a second rope that dangles loosely and you tie off to it every twenty feet or something, or you might back yourself up like you do when jugging a line - by tying off to your rope (below the belay device) every once in a while. This will cause the tail end of the self-belay line to be un-weighted, though, which may render your device less self-moving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott Posted January 27, 2003 Share Posted January 27, 2003 (edited) For toproping, the soloist works really well. if you pump out you can sit on the rope like with an ascender. it feeds very well. i would tie the rope back into the pro with a clove hitch after you pass it) every 50 feet or so so that the weight of the rope doesn't begin to pull the soloist sideways. the trick with using the soloist is to get the right amount of tension between the harness and the chest harness so that the thing doesn't twist or turn sideways easily, but not so much tension that you can't do reachy moves. the soloist doesn't hold upside down falls. the silent partner does, but is tricky to use and will not lock up easily if you want to rest on the rope when toproping. it takes a real fall to lock up the silent partner. to back up a soloist used while toproping, just tie a looping knot in the rope beneath you- the soloist will snag on the knot if it doesn't catch. Edited January 27, 2003 by scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted January 27, 2003 Share Posted January 27, 2003 I also use the Ushba Basic. One refinement, is to use a 1/2" stock Maillon/Quicklink instead of a biner to clip it to your harness, as this is a) stronger and b) much less likely to crossload than the biner. Dont forget to a) pad the TR over the lip and b) take prussiks in case you cant get back on the rock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted January 27, 2003 Share Posted January 27, 2003 Scott- Call me paranoid, but personally I would consider a back-up that would not depend on the soloist at all -- a truly "redundant" back-up. (Well sort of, because, as we may recall from a prior conversation, ...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Off_White Posted January 27, 2003 Share Posted January 27, 2003 I've used a Microscender (used to be Rock Exotica, now is Petzl) with success, but its not designed as a self belay device and I've heard of at least one incident where someone slid down to their last back up knot. Back up knots are a drag, since on hard stuff you have to wind up hanging to tie and clip the damned things in, but I'm too anxious to do without. It'd be nice to have something dependable enough to not tie knots. Its funny TG brought this up, since I was wondering the same thing the day before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkrueger Posted January 27, 2003 Share Posted January 27, 2003 Nice tips Dru! Glad to learn from your experience instead of finding myself in an ugly situation, stuck in the middle of a climb, unable to move up or down... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott Posted January 27, 2003 Share Posted January 27, 2003 backing up further is up to the climber i guess. i just like to keep moving and not have to bother with another system. as long as the rope is well anchored, you could tie the rope into a piece 25ft up or so with a clove hitch after you pass it, and then clip a sling that is girth hitched to your harness to the rope with a locker. if you fall, you won't go past the piece the rope is tied into. this has the advantage of being a do it once and forget about it method. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted January 27, 2003 Share Posted January 27, 2003 The big disadvantage with backing up, is that 1) if you clip in to the backup like when jumaring, you may not have enough weight of rope between the back up and the self belay to gravity feed when you move, leading to you having to take a hand off the climb to hand feed ; 2) if you rap back down your single line to work the route or climb adjacent route, you have to take all the knots out before rapping over them, and if you pull the rope up, the knots can jam or get stuck. Ive heard petzl Shunt works great for self belay but feed is not quite as smooth as Ushba. Ive also used Grigri but found I had to hand-feed the whole way which was annoying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Off_White Posted January 27, 2003 Share Posted January 27, 2003 Here's a link to more discussion on the topic that someone else gleaned and collated from rec.climbing. WARNING: lots of words solo top roping Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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