chriss

Does somebody locally (WA) have Altitudes on sale? I might be in the market? chriss

forrest m, I agree. But I also object to the way these accidents are reported to the general public (papers and TV). "They did everything right", "were prepared and expirenced" and still got killed. I feel this type of press is inviting more restrictions on backcountry usage. chris

"when you enter avalanche terrain you can do everything right and still get killed, which is something everyone should know." Entering avalanche terrain is an obvious risk AND NOT the right thing to do. You can do alot to help protect yourself but it is hardly ever the right thing to do. This I know. chris

"They did everything correctly," Costie said. "They responded within minutes. They did everything in textbook fashion. I doubt there was a better prepared group in the backcountry that day." This is from the Seattle Times article. While sorry for the loss, I don't think "they did everything correctly" and I feel it is wrong to make this kind of statement, especially in the paper. Even referring only to the rescue portion of the slide, this shouldn't have been said. It is very important what the general public reads and sees (TV) concerning backcountry activities. chris

The germans only had 10 points. \ It was the Austrians that had 12 points. chris

Have been using the Simond Najas for a few years now. Never had any problems. Not cold hands or pick problems. Didn't like the clip-off leashs that came with the tools and switched to a BD Lockdown. The picks have the CE T rating just like everybody else. I've been using the same picks for 4-5 seasons without a problem (still carry a spare). The hammerhead is fine. If you have to hit the head that much to release it, you've got other issues. They're light, swing easy, hook well and do have smaller diameter shafts. Though curved, the shafts go into snow well. Been a good tool for me. I switched from BRS X-15s. chris

This is not always true. Example...(no or little slack) Climbing along. 10ft above belay put in gear. 5ft above gear, fall. 10/15=.6666 Fell 10ft, double the distance above the pro. Rope out, 15 ft, distance of climber to belay. Example...(way you've been taught, say 5ft slack) climbing along. 10ft above belay, put in gear. 5ft above gear, fall. 10+5/15+5=15/20=.75 Fell 15ft, 10ft and another 5ft in slack. Rope out, 15ft and another 5ft slack. Fall factors are different?! Slack fall factor gets bigger with the more slack you add in! The slack number adds to both the fall length and the rope out length. Decreasing the value of the rope distance to the pro that holds the fall. Be careful, don't believe everything you read. chris

Finally able to log on this thing. Cascade. The compensating forces, and I'm assuming you mean the compensating anchor forces not the force due to the belayer, come from mass x accelration of the anchor. If the anchor stays attached to the ice (rock, tree, etc.) and its stays attached to the earth, the mass is big enough as it can hold the force with very, very little accelration (as good as 0). I'm glad you brought up the fact that the elastic stretch and force absorbtion of of ropes is NOT linear, meaning no K factor. It's not that simple with polymer materials. And I agree with you about not using a doubtful belay anchor as leader pro. If possible the belayer should help hold any fall and not put so much force on the anchor. And, did anyone note that the spin that probably caused the broken leg was due to the anchor rope sliding around the harness. One of the posts said the rope to the anchor slide to one side of the swami and the force of the fall spun him around to the other side. If he would have clipped the belay device to the loop of rope at his tie-in, ..... very little movement. chris

Am I getting this right? You placed a "relatively new" sling, tied a good knot, on solid rock and it "failed" with partial body weight. Sorry, I can't beleive the sling broke. Maybe cut, maybe slipped off, but not broke. chris

Don't dwell on this to long. There are more factors to this than can be calculated. You're assuming the rope is at its maximum stretch when the piece pulls and then doesn't have time to recover when it loads the next piece. But since you don't know how much force it took to pull the first piece or how you are falling in relation to the next piece (straight down to it? maybe it's off to the side a bit?) or how the belay is going react when loaded heavier or .... The list goes on. And the time of 10 minutes was for full recovery and can again vary widely. But what do I know. chris

You've run two situations into one with this "Gate Lash". Whiplash is the first. Gate flutter is the second. They are from 2 different causes. Wire gates REDUCE this, not eliminate. chris

The posts seem to reflect the posters climbing history. Ask someone who has climbed in the area for a longer period and you get a totally different prespective. Not that they are right or wrong. JayB, you haven't met or talked with Steve Cheney (long time local) about Turkey Rocks or Shelf Road or Sheep's Nose or the Garden or.... He has another take on the bolting issue and history there. chris

Traditional (trad) climbing is about leading a climb from the ground up and placing protection as you go. With out preveiwing the route or prepping, or whatever. Bolting CAN and has been done in a traditional lead manner. And clipping bolts does not make the climb a sport climb. Big Rock Candy Mtn. has only a few routes, the easiest is 5.10 or so. The South Platte area has a lot of domes. Most of the slab climbs are run-out. But, there is a reason. They were lead in a traditional manner with bolts as protection. The leader could not stop and drill just anywhere, they climbed until they found a place for gear or could get both hands free to drill. Even with these bolts, they remain trad climbs. Until they become "safe" for the masses by being retro-bolted. chris

"The figures generally show that about 90% of avalanche victims are alive after 5 minutes but that at 30 min less than 50% are. The odds of surviving burial are less than 50%, so it would appear that most are not being recovered quick enough." Not trying to start an arguement but... It does NOT say how many "survived". Only a percentage of victims "alive" after x number of minutes. Case by case basis is the only way to analyze this. chris

Check BD's page on webb and cord... http://www.bdel.com/rockclimbing/ropes-etc_accessory-cord.html They have... 7mm cord 9.3 KN 31 grams/meterand (less than 1 inch, though)... 18 mm webb 13.3 KN 27.9 grams/meter stronger and lighter. chris

Had to look at the data since all the arguements over what it said or didn't say. It seems, to me, that 1" tube web is the way to go. chris

In the Garden of the Gods you can carve your intitals in the rock with your finger after it rains. Even some guidebooks say not to climb there until days after rain because the rock is so fragile. I'm sure you've done Montizuma's Tower by now. THE Classic Garden Route. Now think of the route without those obnoxious bolts added a few years ago. It was an adventure then, even when surrounded by tourists in minivans. chris

I need to go ice climbing. Was thinking of driving up to Lilliet (sp?) next weekend, Dec 15-16. Have never been there. Have ice climbed, just on there. Heard there's a cheap place to stay. Need a partner who has ice gear and is not to driven, to put up with an old guy like me. Don't care that much about experience. Shoot me an e-mail, wabearpaw@qwest.net , chris

Wasn't there a guy that rode there on his bike, carried his own gear in and climbed Everest without O2?? And rode back home. chris

Plenty of ice for a daytrip. Check out Officer's Gulch off I-70.Mt Lincoln Boulder CanyonCheyenne Canyon in CO SpringsVail All easy to find with little walking. chris

OOOPS Major typo. 80 kg= 784 Newtons. Not KN. Sorry. chris

I think there is some minor confusion of measurement units here. I'm not sure of the unit BD is using " lbf ". But, remember a pound is not a measure of mass, it is a measure of force. You step on the scale, you weigh 176 lbs. This is earth's gravity pulling you toward it with a measure of 176 lbs. You weigh 80 Kg., you put 784 KN of force on the scale. I think he's saying 5000lbs force. chris

Camp Micro 1. K&R has them. I have one of these. Almost too light, so I added a CM headweight. chris

JayB I have heard that Hully Gully is open to climbing now. It was off limits for years. Real close, as it is in Cheyenne Canyon. I've never done it though. Moved away before it became legal. Sorry no favorites for me. Liked the variety. chris

JayB, Haven't owned an Edelweiss in 20 years.Don't know about the rope. But I know Mt. Lincoln is hardly "roadside" ice. Head for Officer's Gulch, off I70, soon. Not as crowded as Lincoln, has a few long moderates. Get there befor ski season really takes off, as the area is avalanche prone later in the season. chris