Alex

sk, actually, this is a great example of what I am talking about. You have no idea who I am, have never met me, and yet you call me the problem? As for your defence of Greg, boy I wish you had been there to DEFEND ME when I needed it, but no one steps up when theres real shit flying. Greg doesnt need any defense, certainly not against me. a) I am not attacking anyone b) I am not attacking anyone and c) I am not attacking anyone I am happy you got hooked up through this site. In fact I have climbed alot of really great routes with many members of this posting community, and I have NEVER had a bad experience. When people deride this board I defend it, because in general the people I have met here, like you, are great people. so what was your problem again??? please re-read my post. You are really very new to this board and don't know alot of things about its history or the characters that post here. To summarize though, my point is that: Everyone has the right to use this site as they see fit, without interferece Anyone who wants this site to be something that it isnt, or wont be with current moderation policies, should go elsewhere People arn't nice enough??? no, people are certainly NOT nice enough here maybe you are the problem??? perhaps I am. It is your right to suggest it. I am a suck shit climber and the slowest hiker in the world and still manage to climb with and meet people and learn things via this bbs that you say holds no true content.... Please re-read my post. I never stated it didnt hold true content, I stated it lost its relevance as a platform for the local climbing community. Alex

sk, actually, this is a great example of what I am talking about. You have no idea who I am, have never met me, and yet you call me the problem? As for your defence of Greg, boy I wish you had been there to DEFEND ME when I needed it, but no one steps up when theres real shit flying. Greg doesnt need any defense, certainly not against me. a) I am not attacking anyone b) I am not attacking anyone and c) I am not attacking anyone I am happy you got hooked up through this site. In fact I have climbed alot of really great routes with many members of this posting community, and I have NEVER had a bad experience. When people deride this board I defend it, because in general the people I have met here, like you, are great people. so what was your problem again??? please re-read my post. You are really very new to this board and don't know alot of things about its history or the characters that post here. To summarize though, my point is that: Everyone has the right to use this site as they see fit, without interferece Anyone who wants this site to be something that it isnt, or wont be with current moderation policies, should go elsewhere People arn't nice enough??? no, people are certainly NOT nice enough here maybe you are the problem??? perhaps I am. It is your right to suggest it. I am a suck shit climber and the slowest hiker in the world and still manage to climb with and meet people and learn things via this bbs that you say holds no true content.... Please re-read my post. I never stated it didnt hold true content, I stated it lost its relevance as a platform for the local climbing community. Alex

hate to say this dwayner, but this site began losing any relevance as a platform for the local community and a real vehicle for information, oh, about 2 years ago, when users decided it was more important to entertain themselves (often at the expense of others) than to restrict activity to things climbing related on the one hand, it has made the site very popular as a distraction, and there is more activity on this board than any other climbing-related board. Activity is good, when there isnt much, BBSs become stale and eventually obsolete. I still like coming here from time to time and sharing stories or reports or commenting on gear, because the content and discussion is fresh. on the other hand, the free and lackadasical attitudes that some posters have has certainly turned me and most of my friends off from posting information here. One, because we have all been party to various VERY PERSONAL flame wars that often boiled over into REAL THREATS, and two, because it seems there is little if any respect for a thread. Thread creep, thread drift, posting aimless comments when they have no relevance. Just shows that no one cares. So why should I? My opinion is that there is nothing anyone can do, short of publically ostracizing people who dont live up to a standard, and banning them. And as some have so ably pointed out in the past, who the fuk is Alex (or anyone besides jon and tim?) to set any standard for anyone else? coexisting on this site is just like coexisting in the real world. While I might not agree with people like Capt Caveman or Greg W on alot of issues, including how to use this site or other things, they have just as much right as I do to be here and use the site as they see fit. If one doesnt like it, might as well leave...? Alex

hate to say this dwayner, but this site began losing any relevance as a platform for the local community and a real vehicle for information, oh, about 2 years ago, when users decided it was more important to entertain themselves (often at the expense of others) than to restrict activity to things climbing related on the one hand, it has made the site very popular as a distraction, and there is more activity on this board than any other climbing-related board. Activity is good, when there isnt much, BBSs become stale and eventually obsolete. I still like coming here from time to time and sharing stories or reports or commenting on gear, because the content and discussion is fresh. on the other hand, the free and lackadasical attitudes that some posters have has certainly turned me and most of my friends off from posting information here. One, because we have all been party to various VERY PERSONAL flame wars that often boiled over into REAL THREATS, and two, because it seems there is little if any respect for a thread. Thread creep, thread drift, posting aimless comments when they have no relevance. Just shows that no one cares. So why should I? My opinion is that there is nothing anyone can do, short of publically ostracizing people who dont live up to a standard, and banning them. And as some have so ably pointed out in the past, who the fuk is Alex (or anyone besides jon and tim?) to set any standard for anyone else? coexisting on this site is just like coexisting in the real world. While I might not agree with people like Capt Caveman or Greg W on alot of issues, including how to use this site or other things, they have just as much right as I do to be here and use the site as they see fit. If one doesnt like it, might as well leave...? Alex

quote: Originally posted by Greg W: Can't we all just be nice to each other and get along? Ok, now you are scaring me. [ 10-02-2002, 10:07 AM: Message edited by: Alex ]

I've been putting off going down there for far too long it seems!

thanks, I've been meaning to go climb this and I think I'll give it a shot this weekend..

http://www.wowweather.com/newsletter.htm a discussion of some of the dry forecasts that are being made for this upcoming fall and early part of the winter.

[ 10-01-2002, 10:40 AM: Message edited by: Alex ]

hey mr. radon sir, where is THAT?? Alex

quote: Originally posted by forrest_m: i hear cavey is a toothophile... I heard that too, ...wait... does Beckey still have teeth Ray?

quote: Originally posted by Noway: BFD! I thought this was climbers forum. Post your commercial dating service elsewhere, moron. Last I checked this was a climbers forum for Northwest climbers, you Tennessee retard. Rock on Jerry

quote: Originally posted by carolyn: Most of my interest has peaked in ice, trad, and mountaineering. Soooo..... what do you find as necessary? what do you find as a novelty? and what would you consider useless? If you also wouldnt mind explaining why, I would greatly appreciate it. Wow, this is a great series of questions and I am surprised you havent gotten more answers. Buying gear is so tough, even if you have money to buy it. I was in a similar situation as you are many years ago, working for EMS, and I racked up a huge credit card bill before I left the company. That credit card bill stayed with me for 5-6 years (I carried the balance) so my first rule is 1) DONT BUY ANYTHING YOU DONT HAVE CASH FOR Other than that, several people nailed some of the most difficult things in their answers (boots, multifunctional stuff), but I think I can reiterate for emphasis and add a bit myself. Ok, you identified ice climbing, mountaineering as interesting to you. These can be exceptionall expensive areas if you buy retail, so Alex's rule number two is 2) Buy solid used equipment if you can help it. Obviously not ropes. But crampons, ice tools, and such, get them used. You will save even more than pro-dealing Now, with that out of the way, here is my list Necessary Necessary equipment you should absolutely deal with now: ----------- helmet - Ecrin Roc is nice good gore-tex climbing jacket. Arcteryx, Pata, other makes sleeping bag - only DOWN. Boots/footwear. Boots are really hard to get right! Dont buy platics, buy really good leather boots and fit them correctly! pack - something to carry stuff in for a variety of trips. I have 2, a 50L bag (you might get a 40L if you are small) for ice climbing and overnight climbing trips in the mountains, and a larger bag (used Dana Terraplane) for longer trips Petzl Zipka/Tikka headlamp. Indespensible harness. I like the Arcteryx Verro as a good all-around harness crampons - a good all-around set like the 2F. I have 2 pairs, a set of aluminum for mnt travel, and a set of Grade 8s for technical ice. Novelty Stuff you should get if you have the cash, but shouldnt if you dont. rock climbing rack - hardware takes a long time to accumulate, go slow climbing rope - you will need a partner to learn initially, use their rope until you are able to confidently lead things, or if you are going out often enough to warrant getting your own tent - single wall tent or ultralight 4 season ice tools - used is good until you get good enough to know the difference useless not much is truly useless, until you buy enough of one type of equipage that you stop using something you've got in favor of the other something. Still, here is my list of useless eq I have bought and sold over the last 15 or so years large "backpacking" internal frame packs. Anything larger than 50L is TOO BIG for the lower 48, unless you are going in for a week poor quality Randonee equipment - Ramer plates suck poor quality snowshoes - get something very durable, not the MSR crap bulky synthetic sleeping bags - buy DOWN poorly tailored outerwear - take the time to get the right fit. poorly fitting boots - take the time to get the right fit for the RIGHT BOOT. Platics are rarely if ever the right boot. You have amazing options now, might I suggest a pair of Scarpa Freneys or La Sportiva boots? heavy tents - go with single wall, Bibler, Garuda or very lightweight double wall tents pound in ice protection - just buy smileys/BD and you'll do great. Here is a link you can use for some more thoughts http://www.mountainwerks.org/alexk/climb/light.htm

hike to top of Palmer, turn right. traverse into White River canyon, there are some large crevasses at the 8500 foot level there that you can lower into and practice in. Alex

amen [ 09-24-2002, 06:16 PM: Message edited by: Alex ]

lawgoddess, do S Sister and Broken, nice outing, nothing but sneakers required. wayne, yes, I have topped out directly above the EMC, in June. Exposed ! I wouldnt want to be on N sister (especially decending) if there wasnt snow on it.

wait... Redmond... to Tacoma... to drink a beer...?

I'll try to attend donde estas? somewhere where we can watch the Ms

quote: Originally posted by Cpt.Caveman: to a novice that climbs 5.13s I wish I was a novice who climbed 5.13!

The original post wasnt quite about soloing, but it was about "irresponsible advice" posted here and how to potentially recognize it or regulate it, or what to do about it. From what I understand at some point TG suggested someone try free soloing to get over leaders' fright...(correct me if I am wrong)? I have a few thoughts on this One, irresponsible is a subjective term since we all have varying skill levels and varying levels of accepted risk associated with climbing. So I don't know how you could ever legitimately call anything irresponsible. It might be perfectly sage advice *for a given audience* -- and the only thing is you dont know your audience well here in an anonymous setting. So water it down so every post is targetted at the lowest common denominator, the newbie? Poor solution, and one that would never work without moderation of the board (by someone who is subjective anyway!). Disclaimer to shield Jon and Tim from lawsuits brought about by people (a la Chouinard fame) who sue because there wasnt adequate warning/instruction and who are not willing to take responsibility for their actions? I think legal precedent is that disclaimers wont shield you from the real deal, just like liability waivers wont shield guides even though they hope it will. What then? How does one try to offer "good" advice to an audience when the audience is an unknown, and the topic is so highly complex and subjective? How do you treat people with respect and as a peer when they or their skill level in truth might deserve anything but? I guess in the end, the oldest advice is treat others how you would want to be treated *if this were not a nameless, faceless medium* TGs advice was only that, the reader can choose to take any advice into consideration, and make their own choices. I personally would have recommended climbing routes with easy starts and hard finishes, that force you into falls. People who are intimidated by leading often are afraid because, despite what everyone is telling them, *they dont trust the gear, or themselves*. There is only one way to learn to trust the system...excercize it. At smith, JTs route is a great route to force a fall on a reluctant leader. I believe at least one poster here can vouch for that! Alex [ 09-24-2002, 02:56 PM: Message edited by: Alex ]

Urban Bypass 10b is a sketch move at a bolt (2nd to last on the pitch?), just before the belay. It felt *very much* like the 10b sketch move off the belay on the 2nd pitch of City Park, but bolt protected with a clean fall. Highly recommended!

quote: Originally posted by Cpt.Caveman: I have to agree with Alex... Holy shit batman!

good chance of second ascent having one and if you dont find one there, you can buy a real ice tool while youre at it

Trickster: the Blue Lake approach would be possible, but why...? The approach from the hairpin is ~45 minutes, with no elevation loss? You could potentially double the approach time from Blue Lake. as to free/vs french free: we went up with the attitude to seriously free it. We got to 5th pitch very fast and free and said "screw that, lets just keep going fast" so french freed a few short sections on the rest of route - still very enjoyable 5.10 climbing at that, but not desparate. Second absolutely needs no jumars. Dont bring aiders, dont bring jumars. Think "exit 38 sport hangdog french free" and thats what you will be doing if you want to - its not aid at all jugging that route would be way slower than just climbing it and yarding on a move or two!... Alex