Water

That is kind of what I was thinking.. the trail never goes that close to the base of dragontail. Unless someone is having fun and going up not on the trail..on the south/west side of the creek

BCEP does not cover crevasse rescue. As others have said, and being a BCEP graduate myself, I think ICS is probably solid learning, but the time commitment is pretty huge, and I'm guessing the pace a bit slower. There might be something said for learning mountaineering/rock skills at a low-medium intensity for a long time as opposed to fast and tons of knowledge all at once. Whole difference of going to class all year vs cramming for a week as far as proficiency. There is an intangible part of climbing partners that you will probably form in ICS (its practically a requirement), if you need/want that. Otherwise a 3-5 day intensive with some service could probably cover what you want to learn. Remember Mazamas are not a school or paid guide service or anything, but a club that offers classes that members volunteer to teach..can give a bit of a different style than an instructor being paid to teach, and that isn't to put a value judgment on either.

pics as requested:

haha

thats cool, as least you have an experience to base your hate on, instead of being raised to think that way. thanks for clarifying your weird statement about being unskilled and too specialized cheers

Sure you extended your statement out to cube workers, but you start with "Michiganers opted over time to become relatively unskilled insects". So are you referring to engineering, design, managerial arenas when you say they chose to become relatively unskilled (by being "over-specialized"?)? Perhaps they should have learned construction trades simultaneously? Or when you're speaking of unskilled, did you mean, assembly line workers who are metaphorically are being culled. They over-specialized? Please clarify. Perhaps you meant society's attitudes and approaches are fucked up and Michigan gives a preview of what can/may/will happen elsewhere. However to single out Michiganders as a people having made some sort of dehumanizing choice different from people elsewhere is disingenuous. You are spot on about the worthlessness of over-specialization into the minutiae of corporate/modern workplace scheisse. It has it's place, science can to speak to it, but to the value for an individual and for society to focus so intently down narrow paths surely doesn't make one very adaptable. I myself am wired to be a generalist, and while it can be difficult to find a current at times-there are many currents to ride. This may be a society-wide issue, so speak it as such, no need to speak so mordantly about Michiganders. The generalist knows less and less about more and more until finally S/He knows nothing about everything The specialist knows more and more about less and less until finally S/He knows everything about nothing

Wow. What sweepingly broad generalizations about Michiganders. Yes, there are just so many factory assembly workers who turned their brain and heart off for money..yada yada yada. What a load of fucking bullshit. The amount of people who don't work with the auto-industry but are impacted by its problems is huge, at least in Michigan-I can explain how that works if you don't understand how that works. But yeah, they're totally different than people who live in the rest of the country who grow up where they are born and apply for jobs that are available so they can work and consume. Right... Michigan is just SO unique in that sense. Sure, Michigan was dependent on the Auto co., and over time became more dependent on them than the Autos were on Michiganders. And obviously the Auto co's did a shitty job of playing business. Collapse the largest industry in any other state and see what happens-its not pretty-and it is especially bad in Michigan. But yes, this comes down to the stupid assembly line worker who just wanted money to consume. What a logical conclusion. Not like if that other species actually did a half assed job to develop and position their industry to evolve it could have helped at all.. It is clear you've never been to Southeast Michigan, or if you have, it was as a computer. Let me tell you a secret that people in Michigan are nearly creatures of another planet who don't have communities, families, dreams, hearts, and intellectual pursuits. All those assholes at the Michigan Jungian Society meetings I went to were such losers for having even ancillary jobs connected to the auto market or being even born in Michigan. Same goes for the Michigan Cacti and Succulent Society --unthinking heartless drones! There might be some housing speculation in Michigan - but I'll tell you thats not really a place to point a finger, might try the southwest or florida for that. There are people who want to leave Michigan who can't. People who've lived there for decades, who aren't trying to speculate, who simply need someone to buy their house--even at a huge loss. Nobody is moving there! My girlfriends parents would like to leave the state when the youngest finishes college. They'd like to move back to of all the flashy places - pittsburg - to be closer to family. Heaven forbid they'd want to sell their 2k sq ft cookie cutter suburb house (you can call it a "speculative mcmansion" for effect) for 3 kids + grandma & 2 cats they've been in for 15 years, in the area they've lived in for the last 30. Your statement about what Michigan's population did 'wrong' is simply incorrect. If anyone is at fault for 'shutting off their hearts and minds' for money it would be those who made high level decisions for the Autos-assembly line workers did not march the companies off a cliff with poor designs, r&d, and response to foreign competitors. p.s.: thanks for taking a shit on the humanity of most of the people I know. classy.

got back from N sister this weekend. Up the S.E. ridge, down the S. ridge and out along the moraines/edge of the hayden glacier. Were able to just do a standing, slow scree-slide down half of it. like wimsey reported, bowling alley is entirely snow free. A tiny bit of ice or so about up in the far corner of it but not of importance for the route anyone would go up. Traverse was rock solid snow when we got there-difficult to get the spike in or imagine much in the way of arrest with a fall. donned crampons and I opted to wait for it to soften a bit as we didn't have a rope and pickets. Partner isn't one to sit still so to pass the time he borrowed my ax to secure himself while he chopped steps across with the other. entirely not necessary but passed the time and made it easier a lot easier for me to go across - second tool would have been nice. for me, that traverse was the crux, for him, downclimbing the top of the bowling alley. In this situation he was more comfortable on the snow and I on the rock. No rockfall was occurring that I could see or hear except from where we kicked shit. Another group came up as we were on the summit, but they had only brought rock gear and no ice ax or crampons. rock gear up there seems like a water filter in the desert.. anyways, they were bummed they didnt have the proper gear so short of the summit and had thought it would be snow free from all the info they could find (didnt know of this thread I guess). i can post pics if someone wants to see.

as a born and raised michigander I have to say that the state is fucked for a while. The decline of the auto-industry really started hitting around 2001, even though SUV sales were strong, that was a spikey thing and overall sales from the big three were going south. I don't know what the state is going to do. I have no idea how my girlfriends parents or my mom and stepdad will ever sell their houses there. My dad works with a good environmental ground water testing company and that will be solid well past retirement if he wants to keep working there, but that type of story is far and few between among everyone I know in Michigan.. I can't imagine moving back to anywhere around there, and not just because there aren't any mountains.

timely. I mailed my passport renewal form, plus pictures, old passport, and fees today. Sorta sucks, yeah, but there are other options even, its not like $75/10 years is a bad deal. Though at the same time there is a fee to cross lines drawn by people of power is kinda funny. There is a $20 passport CARD that will allow for border crossings, though the passport BOOK is recommended for travel where you will need visas and go through immigration check points.

trail from pamelia up to hunts cove and then up the short 'climbers trail' up towards mud lake is pretty straight forward. main points, when the trail from pamelia lake hits hunts creek, which is very flooded, just go straight across--then snow started up just short of hunts cove and was pretty continuous. Hunts lake is 85% melted out? Up above where the PCT is, is still all snow and the lakes up there are not melted at all. Camped there (shale or mudhole lake..). We were going to go up to scope the summit area for a future attempt but it was so foggy we didn't bother really. Looks like we could have had luck if we went up to 9k or so..might have been above the clouds but hard to tell that if you are in them. someone posted on here who is doing a fullon oregon peaks vacation this week and are planning on doing jeffers on friday. i am hoping to hear some info from them about conditions higher up.

http://www.nature.nps.gov/air/webcams/parks/denacam/denalargerimage.cfm just up, will be for a few months before it shuts off for the long long winter.

on foot? a guess, but even with this warm weather i think there is probably a fair amount of snow covering. snowshoes or skis probably desirable. if you head up, please report back your findings, would also like to know of conditions.

maybe he did denali and rainier years ago, when he wasn't 81. Probably prefers to space things when he can being 81. even if the friend's dad was 45 and blazing fast there is no harm in asking info about a high camp, maybe he is not from around here.

I think most people would take a rest day but that all depends on your mental drive and physical conditioning prior to getting out here. I don't know if its exactly fair or accurate to compare, but since you're out east, ask if you'd do the presidential traverse (grafton notch/webster cliffs to madison and down the osgood trail to pinkham notch--the AT) twice in the same time frame as what you're thinking as for adams and hood? I know the miles would probably be a bit less to do Adams and Hood but physical demand could be called similar to me, having done both those here and that romp out east. one more easy alpine climb? as in lack of elevation gain or as in not technical.. south sister is an option, and st. helens if you can snag a permit for your timing-both have good elevation gain but are not technical (assuming you did the south side on s. sister).

any significant media personality, especially political in nature, cannot rail too specifically on a segment of the population that likely encompasses part of their supporters. How many fans of Moore drive an SUV? What if a discussion on healthcare by media personality comes down to them ripping on fat people and smokers - they probably have quite a few fans who are fat and/or smoke. Everythings got to be broad and general, much easier to speak in terms of "theys and thems" and corporations. The all pervasive 'they'... it could be anyone. but i hear you..and that statement about oil supplies, quite true..

Just getting into climbing - live over near beaverton. Not really near you but indoor climbing doesn't interest me from my experiences with it. I don't know what 5.X i can climb but would be willing to belay you if you had the patience for someone generally new to rock climbing. I am fit and pretty nimble, but only have a harness/atc, webbing, no pro. pm me if you want to figure out more, and I take no offense if I'm not the partner you're looking for.

any pro would probably slide out.. take it fully on the chin to give that one a shot!

I know on Tuesday morning even after the sun was hitting directly on the upper cliffs with rime, not much was coming down. The most I saw fall was from loose bits on the bootpath on the chute. Being new myself to climbing I was curious how the conditions would compare to two sundays ago when it had only been warm and sunny for a few days, and stuff was coming down pretty majorly well before the sun was hitting anything. Sounds like consistent weather has done it better, even if it has been warmer. I wouldn't let that take my guard/awareness down. See how it is when you get up to the hogsback, if you see anything, talk to anyone coming down. Maybe head up earlier just as well, summiting at sunrise.

green tunnel... yeah compared to out west. The reason I asked is because through the whites and mahoosucs (southern maine) there is a fair amount of above treeline..well heck, probably almost all of it out east without heading towards the torngat mountains in northern labrador. again, the pictures look great

stime, beautiful pictures - what kind of camera do you have? Wish we got up earlier on Tuesday but we had a beautiful sunrise summit last sunday with lonelysummit who is on here. The weak front pushing through on Tuesday dressed the sky up nicely. like your website too - do any northern appalachian hiking or mostly around NC?

Sorry we were a mess--there wasn't almost anyone up there, us being the only group and it seemed like what, perhaps 7 other folks solo or group of 2? Yes that was a mazamas group. My first, and last, mt. hood climb with them (though not the last hood climb, probably with a person or two from the group). We definitely went slow, not everyone was capable of going faster perhaps. The group started with 11, 3 turned back at various points along the way up (I didn't hear their reasons, but it was obviously their comfort with something or another cause the weather was fine)-so it could have been 3 rope teams instead of two.. messier I guess. i personally am not sure why we did the high traverse. A cloud came in actually as we were doing that last bit and I think we went on the high, came off it a bit, intersecting with the low around where it turns up ward (not my decision). I think part of a mazama climb doing that is for the sake of doing the route that was planned months earlier (ie the traverse) if it can be done. Our leader talked about not needing to rope up and possibly going over the fumeroles, if conditions warranted. Other than the very minor elevation loss of going down the hogsback and over the fumeroles is there any reasons not to do this to avoid the traverse when it is warmer

from reading their post it didn't sound like they stored their stuff at the hogsback, but possibly at the top of the palmer or somewhere lower, where a snowcat drove over them/someone took them/up for speculation.

sucks about the sleds! I can give a brief 'mazamas' take on this. I moved here from out east, had plenty of experience hiking in the Appalachians and even some backpacking trips at elevation in south american. serious snow/climbing experience, I did not have. Many things I will read a book/forum/fly by the seat of my pants (car repairs, gardening, plumbing, etc) and it is fine, I learn, and gain skill. Sure, doing some of the scrambles here (helens, s. sister, wallowa peaks) were just an extension of hiking.. However, climbing, even on a 'tame' one like Hood on a good day, wasn't one of those things I just wanted to jump into. Ideally, I would have a friend or friends who know what they are doing who are willing to mentor/supplement what I can read in freedom of the hills. However, without that resource, the basic mazama course was what made sense. And we spent a weekend on hood with snow skills, many separate days in our harness climbing/traversing/passing through pro in various settings throughout the class, going over things.. sounds like someone was asleep in class... Having now summited hood once with a group of mazamas people, but not an 'official' climb, I am signed up for an 'official' climb with a large group (11). While our first climb was still a 'big' group (6) compared to most trip reports I see here, we left very early, moved fast along the traverse, and didn't have any issues with anyone's hiking strength/gear/ability. While I am looking forward to this next climb, with more of my classmates, I am admittedly more hesitant that we may rope up for the sake of roping up, move slower along the traverse, and I will be exposed to more risk than being unroped. When our first group was up there last week, all roped groups were going extremely slow, and many had tons of slack line between people - which seemed somewhat besides the point. All the roping definitely seemed to be an impediment to other climbers and to increase the risk of falling ice hitting by spending more time along the traverse. With that in mind, I probably will not sign up for another hood ss mazama climb after this, though I will climb hood more. However, I would posit the experience of a group of 4 to 8 who have all climbed for a few years, doing jefferson or shuksan or olympus is probably a dramatically different attitude/experience. Mazamas do a lot of climbs on hood's south side, but they also do a ton outside of that on other peaks and I have my doubts they are viewed (or even recognized) in the same manner by other climbers at locations outside of hood. Hood bring out the newbies, heck, thats why I'm here. my obvious goal is to stick with the handful of people I've met through this class who I trust and enjoy being around to pursue climbs on our own.

was at the mazamas lodge on satuday evening before we headed up and heard from some folks there (don't think they were on that climb but maybe had been up that day). Not sure of the sequence of events for the saturday accident, but it was said that a crampon came off the climb leader's foot and then he lost his footing slipped down into her. So... she gets hit with ice, falls some distance, leader rushes (maybe?) towards and coincidentally the crampon comes off one foot and then he slides. i was an alternate on a mazamas friday night/saturday WCR hood climb.. glad i did not get onto it.