akhalteke

I think that this has theater wide implications for even those who are our "friends" and not democracies. Anyone who has tracked the US imports of oil from Saudi Arabia have seen them drop off the list of top oil imports to us. Our government sees that ticking time bomb which represents a huge economic power to our and the worlds economy and is looking ahead a few years. From my perspective, I thought that the early prosecution of the war, as in how we started and got into it, was one of the more horrendous things I've seen my gov't do. I carry some bitterness of the initiation of that whole thing. That you, my brothers, overwhelmingly and totally supported it then after the early success after running in there like Leroy Jenkins all akimbo, seemed crazy to me then and now (yet understandable). It shows weak minds and weak will. That the stakes are huge is undeniable, and I would hope that once we've collectively jumped off the cliff like we have, then stay tucked up till ya hit the water or your nuts will go splat. Which translates loosely to stop whining about Iraq and STFU. We MUST successfully pull this off. It's huge and we already spent the money and the lives. Somehow many of you feel that whining and complaining on public boards translates to something like intellectual discourse. It isn't and it doesn't. It marks you as pussies. It shows weak minds and weak will. So STFU and sack up - don't fuck this up for the rest of us. Thats my take. regards to all True. If we fuck this up, bad times to follow. Better not let political differences fuck up an already fucked up situation.

Give us a clue what language we're workin' with here. Not the king's english, that's for sure More like the Prince's English. Harry to be exact... pre-military times 'on the piss'.

Come back with something that requires actual critical thought and I might continue with this discourse. The world is not black and white. The only absolute is that war sucks ass, but is at times necessary. Fair enough. From my perspective everything points to an incompetent cabal of politicians (not generals), that were so arrogant and sure of themselves that they couldn't conceive of anything but a quick defeat and an early exit. They brought the term "regime change" into the lexicon as if it was something akin to an oil change (no pun intended). Drive in, 15 minutes later the regime is changed and you drive out. Yer good for a few months until the next unfortunate dictator goes after your father. I see absolutely no evidence of planning? Literally from day one that US tanks rolled on the streets of Baghdad, we failed to act on any sort of rational plan? Are you really trying to tell me that the best minds of the current administration undertook the requisite research and decided it would be a good idea to disband they Iraqi army and let them keep their weapons? Here's how I see it. Those pushing for war saw a limited window to execute and took best case scenarios as gospel. They understood the possibility of an insurgency taking a stronghold, but their desire to eradicate the regime overtook their good sense (whatever there was). They (rightfully) estimated the war to last weeks at most (and that is what happened). They underestimated the insurgency and the amount of fogeign fighters that would take part in the fighting. They did have noble goals for reconstruction (though obviosuly they had an agenda) and are trying to adhere to them. Problem is, they forgot one of the primary tennants of warfighting. Always expect the unexpected. You must prognosticate every forseeable move the enemy can make. Mr. Tzu said that a long time ago. Problem is, chickenhawks are making the plans and timelines to go to war and do not have the experience and or mindset to think in these chess-like and detail-laden processes. The military may seem like brain-washing to some because they have methods to ensure that every contingency is looked after and every piece of equipment is acounted for. This mentality is a necessity when the stakes of your livlihood are life and death. Those that sit on velvet seat cushions for a living just dont have the ability to think like this. Despite the failure in execution (and mostly in planning) the goals and the plan were at least given consideration as to the well being (short term and long term) to the Iqaqi people. This is something that cannot be said about the Russians. In fact, it must be emphatically stated that the converse is true.

Come back with something that requires actual critical thought and I might continue with this discourse. The world is not black and white. The only absolute is that war sucks ass, but is at times necessary.

Why would we have planned for reconstruction when: "my belief is we will, in fact, be greeted as liberators. . . . I think it will go relatively quickly, . . . (in) weeks rather than months" - Dick Cheney "It is unknowable how long that conflict will last. It could last six days, six weeks. I doubt six months." - Rumsfeld "The Iraqi people understand what this crisis is about. Like the people of France in the 1940s, they view us as their hoped-for liberator." - Wolfowitz It was clear from the beginning that we wouldn't have to do any re-construction? Give me a break. This is obvious pre-war propaganda meant to sell the Americans on a war that was not popular. This shows nothing about the true intentions of the leaaders and those in the upper echelons of command. Please think a little.

I didn't pin the failure on hard-line democrats; but rather stated that they would have rathered we leave like we did the first time we went there; allowing the Kurds to be anihilated. There was an accepted idea that there would be a reconstruction. It was far too vague but you are missing the major point. We had committed to (at the very least, even you cannot argue against this) the fact that there would be a reconstruction. Russia unabashedly stated that the destruction was the fault and at the expense of the Georgians. This is a major difference. To walz in and destroy a town and then occupy and continue to destroy under the premise of a cease-fire and then pull-out and say "oh well," is precisely the opposite of what we did in Iraq. If you wanted us to do this in Iraq, we would have been done in 24 hours. The country would have been destroyed and we would have "won the war" in a few bloody hours. Instead of blowing everything and anything in the country up, we have decided to be more surgical and this takes more time and is more dangerous. We must assume this danger as we are not the animals that would destroy civilian structures to strenghten our point of military superiority.

Since you wrote so eloquently and respectfully, I'll respond. Did we have any intentions of blowing the shit out of the capitol and then cutting and running (excluding hard-line democrats of course)? Reconstruction was always on the minds of those constructing the war-plan (though not as much as it should have been). Russia on the other-hand has been blatant in its apathy of the aftermth and calling it the price for fucking with Mazza Razzia.

Told you fuckers...

Leading to the question as to why Russia would be so angry at us placing them there.

Our aim in Iraq was to make it a better place and install a democratic government. Russia's goal in Georgia was to make Georgia "pay" (verbatim) for reclaiming their own land back. We'll start here. Your turn Kevie

Yep.

I thought you were headed for the Pisgah. Take a chill pill and any conversation between KK and I won't bother you. Eat shit and die homo. I am leaving in 30 mins. Green is not your color bish.

Get a room homos.

STFU, Canuck. As if you have any real stake in either conflict. Sure he does. If the US's military were to fall, he would be so fucked, he would taste latex. The West Ed mall has more submarines than their entire navy. Why? Because they think the big brother that they rue so much will always protect them. We'll see about that...

The only way to get him to leave this country is to instate a draft.

I will be in the Pisgah through Monday. Gotta get outta the heat. Humidity is killer here! Forest Passes are so ghey. I have never bought one ; nor payed a fine. The military hasn't come and gotten me yet, so they must be all bark and no bite.

Polish Guy, you are kinda contradicting yourself a little. You want a hardliner against Russia, yet you are pissed that Bush was not diplomatic enough with Russia. This makes very little sense. I would love for you to call me a 'pussy with no character that shrivels up' when the fighting comes. I need a good laugh small man.

They did it last time because we put some in Turkey. They want to use Cuba this time, because we want to put missiles in Poland. Get it? That is how these lovely "political disagreements" get excalated and "Cuban Missile Crises" get started.

Nope.

Huh? We are all interconnected, and being an isolationist has bit us on the ass in the past. Read some history, man. WWII

how is so? NATO expansion is the only way to go. the only thing that soviets react to is a big stick. the right response would have been to bomb the shit out of kaliningrad. the strategy is to take over countries one by one. your kind of thinking cost europe WWII and this kind of bullshit thinking caused the soviet takeover of eastern and central europe after the war. pretty weak for someone claiming to understand soviet mentality We tried that already. Cold War. It wasn't fun.

BAM! I don't think so.

So, we just fast-tracked putting missile systems on Polish soil after the Georgia conflict. Great. This should be entertaining for a few decades. With Russia talking about using Cuba and Venezuela again as forward-operating bases, we could be in for some times. Should be interesting.

Kind of like the Shiites we told to rise up in southern Iraq and then let Saddam mow them down? Yup

When in Russia, diplomat vodka is a pretty damn nice bang for the buck. Beats anything here under $100 hands down. I think it was ridiculously cheap over there too.