rob

I think the president should be chosen by lottery. We'd get better results some of the time, and the rest of the time couldn't be any worse that what we've got now.

sounds like a feedback loop.

Strange, I haven't noticed a rash of C4 failures yet.... You should sell me all of your C4s, just to be safe. Cheap.

I can't speak for the others, but I'd like to see your grocery list.

We're celebrating our 12th anniversary this weekend, and I wholeheartedly agree with the above as being the reason we've made it this far(and are still very happy to keep going ). We are complete opposites in almost every aspect of our lifestyles and interests,we do almost no activities as a couple, but when it comes to the big issues of a relationship, like honesty, commitment, compassion, respect, etc, and core values in general, we couldn't be more alike. Those are things that matter, in our book. The other stuff is just window dressing, it'll come and go and change and grow and die--not really the things on which you want to base your reason for being together. my wife and I, the same. We're both into totally different things, yet somehow it balances out because the way we view life is the same, even if we engage life in different ways. That's what it takes to get through the rough stuff. My wife and I suspected almost right away that we would get married, and now it's been 8 years.

the "till death do us part" part is not part of the institution of marriage, it is just part of a common marriage ceremony. It's not part of the legal commitment or anything. You can write whatever you want for your "vows".

Has anybody ever tasted a dog? I ate part of a coyote once. It was pretty nasty. (P.S. Garlic is NOT good with coyote.)

sometimes my cat looks at me like she is wondering what I taste like.

Old Conan comicbooks. I can't help it.

Oh my god! He didn't get a free permit! Now their park use statistics are all wrong!

Do backcountry rangers have to get permits?

Me too. My wife already has the bail money standing by.

nice drumset. How many bass drums does he have? 4?

I don't understand why they even issue fines for failing to get a free permit. Why not just issue Blake et. al a permit from the backcountry, instead of a fine? Unless they're looking to make money from the fines, that is. A $250 fine for failing to get a free permit to sleep on public land is crazy, regardless of what Ranger Kelly or whoever says.

it's electric boggie woogie, woogie

I wish I had a nuke so I crater this thread.

what about ex-smokers?

I disagree. Seems to me the same people (conservatives) are against abortion but support the war effort which is a bunch of death wrapped up in politics. Does not make since to me. Yes, but they (conservatives who support the war) don't see it in the same light you do. So, it's not really fair to judge them in light of what YOU know. For just a second, put yourself in their shoes. You can't understand any issue if you are incapable of seeing the other side (even if you disagree). I think that most supporters of the war see the deaths of our soldiers as unfortunate, but for the greater good. If you can admit that they at least feel this way, than you will see that they are not really so bad. At least, they're not malicious.

Hmm, Kevbone, I gotta say... I think your original argument is pretty poor. People who support the war think they're saving lives. From talking to them, they seem to honestly believe they are protecting America by sacrificing our soldiers. I disagree, but I believe they're sincere. Your argument insinuates that they are maliciously sending troops to be slaughtered, which isn't fair. Unless you are saying it's ALWAYS wrong to send soldiers to war. Troll?

Is it joining the special forces?

I think that employers have a responsibility to ensure that the workspace they offer their employees is not drenched in toxic fumes, and if it is, they have a responsibilty to offer protective measures. Workers in factories who are exposed to toxins are provided masks, protective clothing, etc. Or, would you tell them "Hey, you CHOSE to work in a toxic environment, you're on your own, buddy" and absolve the manufacterer of any responsibility? Smoking at home is a touchier issue, obviously. Comparing the two seems somewhat of a specious argument, but I'll bite. I saw a woman driving on the freeway, smoking, with her windows up, and a small child in the back seat. Should that be illegal? But, where do you draw the line? Is it illegal to provide McDonald's food to children? That is also unhealthy. That's a harder issue, but legislation providing a safe workplace has a long historical precident, and I see the smoking-ban as part of that, not part of an argument about civil liberty. Employers don't have the "right" to provide toxic environments.

Yeah, I know, but are you telling me those other people have no choice but to stand by and inhale secondhand smoke? Not hardly. The power of the consumer should be the measure a business uses to determine their policy on smoking. If nobody wants to be around it, they will ban it to stay in business. And if the impact of every activity on insurance premiums were a good measure of what the government should tell us we can & can't do, then a lot of dangerous activities like climbing ought to be regulated & legislated to minimize its impact, and recoup by taxation the cost to our society. Maybe we should just have a study to determine the most benign form of exercise and legislate that everyone must participate at the perfect level to reduce our premiums and make sure everyone's making the right choices in their life. The smoking issue is certainly worth at least some argument and thought to figure out what's the approach most consistent with freedom, and a blanket referendum to ban it indoors was not the best choice. Bullshit……IMO….I have the right to breath clean air in a public place more than you have the right to pollute it. And employees have the right to make a buck without being poisoned. It's illegal to pour arsenic into the river, and it's illegal to pour tobacco smoke into a restaurant. It has nothing to do with the "power of the consumer." P.S. I haven't been paying attention. How did this conversation turn into a smoking thread?

Thanks for the site, guys. This website has had a huge positive impact on my climbing. I appreciate it.

I disagree completely, Arch. I think somebody who voluntarily takes a job in which he risks his life and limb to save others, for generally low pay, deserves a little special treatment. As do their families. I don't think I would place teachers in this category, btw. Sorry Ivan!

Man, I haven't gotten so much work done in a long time. CC should go down more often...