ClimbingPanther

The real question is, when you eat a 2000+? calorie [18 oz beef] cheeseburger at Pilot Butte in Bend, OR, and you only have a very small and unassuming dump two days after eating it, where did the burger go? That is what you find when you look up "scary" in the dictionary. Thanks for the input enelson & bstach. I'll be bagging.

messed up my first post, it's there now.

Not a good comparison. How many people who swam the English channel wore life vests? At higher levels of mountaineering and swimming, safety measures sometimes become optional. Plus, the life jacket will keep you afloat until you are rescued or you rescue yourself. The MLU offers no such safety net, there's too many "if's." If you took every possible safety precaution available to climbers nowadays for every possible contingency no matter how unlikely (which is essentially what you are suggesting), you would have too much weight to climb. Everyone has to draw a line as to how much risk they want to take. Wow, what is that like the 100th time that has been said? Not trying to sound like a jerk here, just a little exasperated at your persistence in an opinion that is not espoused by actual climbers (or swimmers).

Sure, this one works. If you haven't registered before, then sorry, but I'm not convinced. Your timing and attitude is too much of a coincidence. My thoughts are this: You have to rent/buy one, which for me is inconvenient since I come from the other side of the mountain and Government Camp is out of the way (G.C. is the only place you can rent them 24/7). Look at the statistics sometime for how many people climb Hood and then compare that with how many people would have actually been better off with a MLU. Pretty slim chance, and it's just a personal decision whether or not you want to take that chance. If the rescue ethic is maintained of not putting the SAR folks in danger any more than they would be if they just went out for a weekend outing (which most of them do for fun anyway), then there is typically no harm done (to anyone but yourself) and little cost above and beyond what would normally have to be incurred as a result of being rescued with the MLU. So there's the odds / personal choice argument against it.

What is this, the third name you've registered under now? Your opinion is not worth the electricity it took to get to my computer.

But what do you smear it on when there's 10 feet of snow? The bark of a tree that looks like it needs fertilizer? And how dare they move this to spray?!?! I'm deeply offended that so pressing an issue as this be sidelined. All I wanted to do was have a serious discussion about pooping.

Yeah buddy!!!

The fact is though, they didn't do something stupid, I'm sure they were not ignorant of the weather possibilities here, and this situation did not happen because they're Texans or New Yorkers. Their actions are no different than the many others on and off this board who climb Hood all the time. They got the summit and would have made it down, but they had an injury when extra time to extract the injured person was not afforded them by nature. It is an unfortuante coincidence, not some foolish decision they made. Without the accident (assumption, but why else would they split up?), I'm sure there would have never been something to make this trip stand out from the many other trips up Hood.

First of all, why is my moondancer not dancing? Second, why aren't more people interested in poop? Must be too late in the day.

oh, you guys are all just too fast for me

faster than the average Dechristo

faster than the average moderator

Hark, the voice of experience?

Sounds like a good read, but I'm not paying $8 to find out what she says. Anybody care to give me the cliff notes version? Come on, let's talk about poop!

90% sounds like an awful stretch and "new" snow varies a lot in density, but yes that does contribute, though likely not enough to be the only source of air.

baa --> --> --> --> However, it is not so joyful to carry it around with you if at all possible. I know it is unacceptable to "bury" (read: conceal for a limited time) your poop in the snow in high alpine environments where it will essentially remain frozen in time for future civilizations to analyze, but... (no pun intended) What about lower elevation snow? Is it acceptable/questionable/unacceptable to poop in the snow at elevations where it is guaranteed to melt and eventually get in to or at least on the ground? Please don't (blue?) flame me. edit: of course I'm talking multi-day trips here, not just single-dump trips.

Something you've heard of: The Fray, "How to Save a Life" Obscure classical gem: Rachmaninov's "Vespers" by Robert Shaw Festival Singers {this is actually the best recording of the best performance of the best director of the best choir singing the best music ever in the wildest dreams of any mortal being in the universe}

Don't use hyperbole in the newbie forum. If that wasn't hyperbole... No, it's not the bible. But it is likely the best place to start. Kinda like the Pentateuch or something. It is certainly the most comprehensive collection of general information on pretty much all aspects of mountaineering, but it will not be all you ever need. Depending on what subject you're interested in, there are more detailed and specific books out there.

Actually the times my feet were most cold were on day trips with new socks (while the rest of me is always warm). That's why I suspect dehydration reduced my circulation. I was on Leuthold last year on Dec. 11 (kinda scary) one of the times they got really bad off. I went pretty lightweight (<10 lbs) and I probably won't do that again in light of recent events.

My feet get cold easily too. I don't know if there's anything to this, but I've noticed a very nice correlation between my water intake and my feet temperature. That is, my feet get cold very easily and will not warm back up if I'm not drinking enough water. Keep that in mind when you're up there.

Thankfully you only posted twice before you quit and moved on.

323.5 ...must be a maximum

jonmf76, you sound offended, but read your first post again and tell me it doesn't sound the least bit presumptious... Expect spray and condescension as a natural response to perceived presumption of any degree. It's kinda like a law of the universe or something. Oh yeah, and repeatedly proclaiming your disdain for climbers on a site called "cascadeclimbers" is a SURE way to validate your incorrect perception that climbers are mostly jerks nowadays.

Yes, it is indeed a digital vs. analog problem. I just talked with my Cingular guy about it the other day. I still have analog, but it's getting phased out and will be toast in Feb. '08. Pretty stupid, since he said 5% (and fewer by the month) of Cingular's towers are analog, but my service is often better than anyone else's. Why the switch? I wish I knew.

My favorite post to date And all of this despair about the climbing conditions hopefully does not discourage those who care about these climbers. A snow cave protects nicely from things a climber on the surface would have no chance in.