ClimbingPanther

PBS just had a special on giant squids a couple weeks ago, before this development. Thanks for the link!

note: not in 'spray' forum, so while a little is OK, don't sidetrack this too much please The US health care system is too expensive. I think it is an inherent weakness in capitalism, since the "demand" is often not quantifiable in dollars and the supply is severely limited. How much is your life and health worth? This is why we will always keep going to doctors, no matter what it costs us. Of course, when presented with an opportunity to make unlimited cash, a capitalist system will indeed find ways to generate that cash. Higher salaries for doctors? No prob, they're in artificially limited supply for many reasons, like licensing (which is a good thing that they're tightly controlled or we'd have bigger problems). Malpractice lawsuits and resulting malpractice insurance industry? Not going to cripple the industry b/c costs are just passed on to the customer. Where else are they going to go? This is the problem, that there is nowhere else to go, yet we must have the service offered and have no choice but to pay whatever is charged. There's no competition between doctors because there's not enough of them. Patients must compete for available doctors and often (older people esp.) must be willing to pay out of pocket since doctors have the luxury of choosing which customers can pay them the most. [[[ personal side note: My grandma has obvious congestive heart failure, but literally no doctor would take her until someone opened a new practice recently, simply b/c she's Medicare and that doesn't pay well. When she finally got tested, she had a BNP of 2300. It's a wonder she's not dead right now. ]]] Is there such thing as a healthy mix of capitalism and medicine? What needs to change? More doctors to create enough supply to actually have such a thing as supply and demand? Many potential doctors don't practice b/c of malpractice, esp here in WA. I think malpractice lawsuits are a big problem and do not have the intended effect. Look at where the money comes from. The doctor doesn't pay a red cent, except like all doctors, he pays his premium and keeps on practicing, passing the bill for the premium on to the rest of us. So people get compensated for their injuries (not a bad thing) BUT the doctor is not put out unless he gets too many judgments against him. We are stuck with the tab, but not only for the victim's compensation... for massive lawyers fees too. This is not a good thing. It's a drain on the system. But that's just one thought I have. How bout some dissidents or alternative theories?

Can we have "Post of the Week" awards? Pleeeze!

Trip: Rainier - DC w/ Emmons var. Date: 8/11/2006 Trip Report: Here's another long overdue TR. I, my two sisters, and one of their friends from work set out to git the big one Friday night, driving into a beautiful sunset with Rainier on the horizon We slept in the car or on the ground outside, registered in the morning, and started up around 8:00 am. Weather was wonderful with a few insignificant clouds and no wind. Nothing worth remembering on the Muir snowfield, though we did run across a snow snaffle. At Muir: At Muir, we found it a little funny that they have a handicap bathroom. That's right, a handicap bathroom at 10,000 feet. If that wasn't funny enough, the note on the door was the real killer: I don't think it was in service, but definitely good for laughs. Started out for Cathedral Gap across the Cowlitz, and as we neared the other side, one sister started getting really tired and didn't think she'd make it to the top of the gap, so we rested a while and she drank a half liter of my homemade energy drink (discussed elsewhere on this site), which gave her what she needed to get over the gap. It was about this time when we had a distant encounter with the elusive Rock Dachschund. Above Muir: Ingraham glacier had some impressive holes in it. Those are people and tents up to the left, for some scale. We set up camp on pre-made platforms, ate & boiled water. Of course, around 9:00 just as we were going to bed, another group came in and began setting up camp 2 feet away, and proceeded to boil water, which they continued until we left at 1:30am. We left the one tired sister behind to rest and enjoy the morning views at camp. Not a breath of wind as we started up, just the *crunch crunch crunch* of crampons, tinkle of metal, and our own heavy breaths under a pristine night sky. Made our way up the cleaver with no problems. A wayward group was scolded harshly by one of the pro guides for getting above everyone on the trail where they could kick rocks down on us. Above the cleaver, the route turned right to traverse over to the Emmons, since the normal DC route was too broken to go up. We played leap frog along the trail until the sun rose and we rested for 10 minutes or so. What an amazing place to be when it lights up the mountain through a thick haze of red smoke! Was WWI fought here? The trenches are unbelievable! Aaaaaahhh. We continued up to the top with as much glee as can be had when you're working hard. Was I yodeling or yawning here? I don't know. We carved out nice dual-cheek-shaped thrones to sit on while we ate. We had wonderful naps in the thin but very still atmosphere, under an ever-increasing UV lamp. The summit crater seems to have the most impressive trench of the whole trail to the top. I think you could bivy in it and be completely protected. We checked out some of the cave system and found some cool sights, along with an unfortunate blue-bag dumping station. At least that stuff was out of sight and bagged, which is more than I can say for this: Get a life, people! You brought it up, bring it down! We lingered quite a while on the summit to let the masses get finished with rush-hour on the cleaver. Emmons from above: Coming down, we got a rad shot of the gnarly crux: Here's our camp from above. And some more big cracks. I was surprised given its reputation, but there were no close calls with rocks on the cleaver. My sister who stayed at camp said she heard the noises begin just after sunrise and they didn't stop all morning, but we had a good experience thankfully. Nothing much of note for the rest of the way down, just an annoying endless descent filled with envy for the skiers. It was a first for me and my summitting sister, though the friend from work had been up before once or twice. The worst part was when we got back to Paradise and called for reservations at the National Park Inn, and they gave us some joke about being booked for 2 hours! I've been in there twice before and had to wait 30-45 min. while watching tons of open tables remain open, so I know they were full of it. Olive Garden wasn't bad though. Gear Notes: nothing unusual Approach Notes: follow the yellow brick road

ericb, bypass cnn.com commercials by clicking again on the title of the movie after the commercial starts

You do realize that if posts without substance are subtracted, this means you too...

In a related story, tomorrow morning Rosie O'Donnell will be discussing the need for requiring all climbers & outdoors types to have a supply of barbecue sauce with them at all times.

Excellent point, mtnmouse. The different varieties of citrus fruits contain various amounts of important nutrients. While an orange is large and full of nutrients, making it perfect for an Everest expedition (this is all we took for food when I did Everest), tangerines are lower in nutrients yet are much lighter which means they are better suited for fast and light expeditions. However, if you were stuck in a snow cave, I would say an orange would be better, due to its larger size and more nutrients. So, with 20-20 hindsight, we should learn that oranges and tangerines are different, and each person must make his/her own decision on which type to bring, or if both should be brought. There is no right answer to this question, we all must decide for ourselves and can't question the choice of others since we're not in their situation.

Haven't seen you post in a while, OlegV. Great story and GREAT pics, guys! Way to come back whole too. Yocum Ridge will always be there, though a little less each day, eh? You'll get it. Bravo.

Here's my own thoughts... If indeed (most likely scenario) the two left down cooper/NF and they wound up at the base of the NF by slip or avalanche, there will be no body recovery no matter what the melt off. That is a massive accumulation zone and I imagine anything that winds up there gets pushed down into the center of the glacier, not to resurface until it comes out the snout of the glacier. If that is the case, I feel extra sympathy for the family because not having a body to put to rest is very difficult emotionally and also for insurance purposes. They will have a difficult time getting any life insurance payout to help keep up with the bills that will start stacking up. I'm not sure I understand why Phil & Shini keep wasting their time on this site. They must understand that nobody cares about their opinion. Trolls that persistent don't deserve replies, even in spray, so stop encouraging them, please!

Definitely got a point there I was about to say "that's enough already!" when it got locked before I could say it. Oh, and thanks for the personal note/story. I'm sorry to hear that.

I'm sure boulderers have respect for alpinists, right? It just doesn't go both ways I guess.

tvashtarketana is a degenerate atheist commie. Too bad I have to let that lousy commie punk vomit all over me. Whatever happened to the freedom of silencing dissent? But seriously, what's with getting upset over a few references to God in a thread geared towards info for interested parties all over the world & condolences towards families of believers? Atheists are a minority, maybe not among the regulars here, but that thread wasn't just for the regulars. Now the evangelism was definitely out of place, but "God Bless?"

somebody put snafflehound on Wikipedia a while back

Earlier today, Fox News reported kevbone has been abducted by aliens and replaced with someone who knows how to be funny online, at least most of the time. At least, that was their explanation of his change in posting style.

Is there any real science to the color of the lens regarding its improvement/degrading of contrast in such conditions? Maybe a physicist could enlighten us... Gary? Skykilo?

I'm pretty sure there is a winter TR somewhere though I'm not taking the time to look. I seem to remember reading it either before or right after I and my partner tried it last winter. We found very thin, nuisance ice and weren't confident enough to do it without bomber pro.

To Christy and all the newer people feeling a little beat up on: If you have been following this very closely, you'll know that people have been knowingly trying to bog down this conversation and relentlessly asking the same *clearly* disrespectful questions over and over. Most of this has been deleted by moderators. It's unfortunate that a few well-meaning people get caught in the crossfire, but also inevitable. Come around when this sad story is no longer on the national radar and you'll find a much more welcoming tone. I've asked a few dumb questions and made dumb comments, and you have to be prepared to take some ribbing, but it's all in good fun. And good grief, that Dallas news article posted a couple pages back was so full of inaccuracies [no insult intended to the poster], I wonder if they even got that conversation right?! I'm losing faith in the news.

The recent news of a dislocated shoulder does likely indicate a self-arrest injury (this scenario has precedent in ANAM in a Rainier accident), although it is still a possible climbing injury if your arm is not extended overhead. A fall on to a well-stuck low ice tool placement with a pack on could also dislocate a shoulder. The injury itself does not tell exactly when or how it happened.

As has been said elsewhere on the board, people that say stuff like this are just too stupid to put things in perspective. They've been induced by recent news to hastily and shoddily form an opinion on a subject they know nothing about. I am 100% positive that people who live unhealthy lives and subsequently drain Medicare & our private insurance companies are having a far greater impact on our wallets per capita than climbers. Too bad the bills for self-inflicted health problems are often far beyond what any person could hope to repay. Too bad there's no line in the sand on an "acceptable level of smoke" or "...fat" or "sugar." Likewise, there will never be a line in the sand on weather or climbing difficulty. Why should we recoil from paying peanuts to rescue a few people now and then? We have been given a wonderful gift which resides (for most of us) between our ears, and everyone ought to use it more.

I don't have time to respond now (at work) but I do appreciate that you don't state your opinions as the Gospel Truth, and you keep an open mind. This has been discussed a lot by now and I'm sure you will find many reasons people climb (even difficult stuff) if you do a little digging into recent threads of discussion.

Good call. I was amazed to hear that a RATIONAL person could actually take that opinion... Then I had another terrifying thought... About initiatives, I don't think they are 100% evil, but yeah it's super dangerous because people are so easily persuaded by a few new bits of knowledge and don't have time to understand all the consequences. How do you think the poll would have turned out if a news cast of climbers put their own positive spin on the stories? I can't condemn initiatives though because it's another check & balance in case the legislature goes off the deep end.

Watch yourself, kevbone, I'm almost starting to have an inkling of respect for you.

Got that from one of his movies, huh? The movie got it from him, foo

Christy, you are aware that quoting Wikipedia is akin to quoting CascadeClimbers.com, right? For most topics, it is anonymously editable by anybody with internet access. I doubt they have the real facts if what you say isn't supported by any of the news outlets.