ClimbingPanther

Definitely got a point there I was about to say "that's enough already!" when it got locked before I could say it. Oh, and thanks for the personal note/story. I'm sorry to hear that.

I'm sure boulderers have respect for alpinists, right? It just doesn't go both ways I guess.

tvashtarketana is a degenerate atheist commie. Too bad I have to let that lousy commie punk vomit all over me. Whatever happened to the freedom of silencing dissent? But seriously, what's with getting upset over a few references to God in a thread geared towards info for interested parties all over the world & condolences towards families of believers? Atheists are a minority, maybe not among the regulars here, but that thread wasn't just for the regulars. Now the evangelism was definitely out of place, but "God Bless?"

somebody put snafflehound on Wikipedia a while back

Earlier today, Fox News reported kevbone has been abducted by aliens and replaced with someone who knows how to be funny online, at least most of the time. At least, that was their explanation of his change in posting style.

Is there any real science to the color of the lens regarding its improvement/degrading of contrast in such conditions? Maybe a physicist could enlighten us... Gary? Skykilo?

I'm pretty sure there is a winter TR somewhere though I'm not taking the time to look. I seem to remember reading it either before or right after I and my partner tried it last winter. We found very thin, nuisance ice and weren't confident enough to do it without bomber pro.

To Christy and all the newer people feeling a little beat up on: If you have been following this very closely, you'll know that people have been knowingly trying to bog down this conversation and relentlessly asking the same *clearly* disrespectful questions over and over. Most of this has been deleted by moderators. It's unfortunate that a few well-meaning people get caught in the crossfire, but also inevitable. Come around when this sad story is no longer on the national radar and you'll find a much more welcoming tone. I've asked a few dumb questions and made dumb comments, and you have to be prepared to take some ribbing, but it's all in good fun. And good grief, that Dallas news article posted a couple pages back was so full of inaccuracies [no insult intended to the poster], I wonder if they even got that conversation right?! I'm losing faith in the news.

The recent news of a dislocated shoulder does likely indicate a self-arrest injury (this scenario has precedent in ANAM in a Rainier accident), although it is still a possible climbing injury if your arm is not extended overhead. A fall on to a well-stuck low ice tool placement with a pack on could also dislocate a shoulder. The injury itself does not tell exactly when or how it happened.

As has been said elsewhere on the board, people that say stuff like this are just too stupid to put things in perspective. They've been induced by recent news to hastily and shoddily form an opinion on a subject they know nothing about. I am 100% positive that people who live unhealthy lives and subsequently drain Medicare & our private insurance companies are having a far greater impact on our wallets per capita than climbers. Too bad the bills for self-inflicted health problems are often far beyond what any person could hope to repay. Too bad there's no line in the sand on an "acceptable level of smoke" or "...fat" or "sugar." Likewise, there will never be a line in the sand on weather or climbing difficulty. Why should we recoil from paying peanuts to rescue a few people now and then? We have been given a wonderful gift which resides (for most of us) between our ears, and everyone ought to use it more.

I don't have time to respond now (at work) but I do appreciate that you don't state your opinions as the Gospel Truth, and you keep an open mind. This has been discussed a lot by now and I'm sure you will find many reasons people climb (even difficult stuff) if you do a little digging into recent threads of discussion.

Good call. I was amazed to hear that a RATIONAL person could actually take that opinion... Then I had another terrifying thought... About initiatives, I don't think they are 100% evil, but yeah it's super dangerous because people are so easily persuaded by a few new bits of knowledge and don't have time to understand all the consequences. How do you think the poll would have turned out if a news cast of climbers put their own positive spin on the stories? I can't condemn initiatives though because it's another check & balance in case the legislature goes off the deep end.

Watch yourself, kevbone, I'm almost starting to have an inkling of respect for you.

Got that from one of his movies, huh? The movie got it from him, foo

Christy, you are aware that quoting Wikipedia is akin to quoting CascadeClimbers.com, right? For most topics, it is anonymously editable by anybody with internet access. I doubt they have the real facts if what you say isn't supported by any of the news outlets.

For those of you who are new to the forum, please observe that ShiniGami stopped posting and left, but by some strange coincidence, a new person ( GrantsPassed ) just registered a few minutes ago and began right where ShiniGami left off. They are the same person. Please don't just ignore a certain name, but all the "different" people who are acting like this. The world will be a better place.

correct, so stop the madness and ignore him.

Request thread name change: Re: Hundreds lost on this thread

ch...ch...chia?

Sometimes these gems pop in to your mind and you just have to say it. Too much unfunny garbage elsewhere on this site right now.

Dudes, why all the fox bashing just because it's a little farther right than you are? Why don't you start bashing on your own biased liberal news sources like "The Onion" and so forth. Several of their stories have turned out to be exaggerated.

Good grief, you leave the thread for less than 24 hours and it balloons to double its former size! So much for being a resource.

What an eloquent statement! I like it.

Phil, try to remember what has been discussed previously so we don't waste space hashing it over and over. Remember that SAR folks on the ground are volunteers who love to climb and have a wonderful sense of care for others' well-being. They wouldn't be out there if they didn't want to be. Also remember the ethic of not sending SAR into danger above and beyond what is inherent in mountaineering. This is why nobody has been swept away in an avalance attempting the impossible. These guys are not responsible for putting anybody's lives in danger. That is each SAR member's personal choice, and to pin it on the climbers distracts people from the incredible character of the SAR folks.