Checat

I bet you those guys that bolted IGNORANT BLISS were pretty emberrassed; when after they were called out through all media avenues and put on display, and pretty much had their characters picked apart. I've heard Allan Watts got the same reception back in the day. You should count on those guys being incredibly humbled by the experience, and they probably will think twice before bolting more lines. Sometimes youthful exuberance can cause miscommunications.

"Everybody has an opinion. Everyone has an @$$H*!3. They all stink." Having an opinion about climbing styles is necessary. But attacking someone's efforts and attempting to rally the troops to boycott the event is childish. The Eugene rock climbing community loves to have a place to gather and share their interests. Leave it at that Pope.

If you want an alternative to smith, maybe high quality trad in high concentration. You won't find lines or crowds. PM if you have interest

Well it appears Jens been adequately flamed, as par to the course here at CC.com. Any defense Jens, what r you climbing? any interesting trad? Heading down to above crazy steep roof crack, or you have gotten out to Index yet???

Climb more trad before you make these statements. I started point to point and then realized its just an ignorant statement and doesn't deserve that much time. If you cannot understand the values gained from single pitch trad climbing how do you expect to start talking about Trango summits. get your learnin on. Single pitch trad, and the areas that have this kind of climbing, yet still manages to have historical relevance and yeah they're quiet sexy... Gunks Grit Dirty South Roofs (Tennessee Wall, NRG etc..) J-tree Black Hills SD You mention cutting loose on bolts. Trying cutting loose trad climbing w/ no bolts and having to just get X with it... LISTEN TO DMUJA get your learnin. You have to take in the values of all arts of climbing.

Quote from selkirk: Being arrogant and overly aggressive on gear just gets you hurt. Being arrogant(to yourself) and overly aggressive on gear is what TRADS all about. If you were that worried about getting hurt you probably would be sport climbing (and you probably would be getting hurt, see threads above). I'd also fair to venture if you were being arrogant to others you probably would be sport climbing too, because most traddies are more worried about getting brown shorts on that ill-protected, old-school 5.9 crux; than frontin on other climbers ... at Smiff or any other spot in the state...

Anyway, my overall impression was that the local folks at Smith were, by and large, cool people. The trad climbers especially were very supportive and happy to provide beta. The most irritating people, by far, were the ones from my home town of Seattle. YEAH!! Mad props to Oregon Traddies!!! Its a tough state to get by if Trad is your poison. Having to hike all that much around the park, and take 'sporto-mace' to fend off the hordes. I have met a lot of cool trad climbers from Seattle to though. Stuck under roofs at Index probably builds a little bit of the same camradry...

thanks mark. Its pretty lame to kill 80 bucks on gas hunting down the wrong cougar for the wrong occasion. I do however want to thank you again here for your hook-ups on new stuff in the CRG and COre.

Is said Cougar Rock outside of multnomah falls the same thats been rumored about around Central oregon (multi-pitch, some sport some trad) If you looked at the state map top to bottom I imagine you could find a couple of Cougar rocks, not all revealing good technical climbing

All i climb is FA Trad, give me a pm, he might like developing new crack climbs

What destinations in the state have remained boltless after being climbed at beyond a couple years?? Name 4 developers of routes in the state who don't pick up a drill following 1986?? (somebody might get me on this one) How many jaws dropped in the First Ascent Rock Tour DVD screening when they had a Frenchman ripping out bolts on French Soil where bolts didn't need to be???? Continue the surliness...

If you think all of oregons rock sucks your probably not getting with the right Oregonians. Trouts never been a mystery, its in dodges 68 guide, sheet I heard Gavin Ferguson all but stuffs the beta down your throat if you hhapen to run into him out there, thats not the hush hush stuff. GF has stuff up his sleeves in central or and theirs unknown gems from SoOr all way through the Gorge and all areas between I think people are hush hush because ethics and style in this state is so unpredictable. If the communtiy had montana standards it would be easier for developers to pump up their places...

Great post Scared Silly. Are you still the Oregon Regional Coordinator for Access Fund?? You are bringing the topic back to this new guide which is what is really important. Your three gripes a.fa beta, b. access sensitivity and c. quality of info, is the same three gripes I and other rockclimber/gear dealers had with the publication. powderhound is bringing up the fact no great state guide exists, mostly because everyone is so hush hush with the dope crags of the state not allowing them in a guide like this; and this guide has obviously focused on inaqdequate areas and has inadequately covered them there is a sheeetload of new crags that will probably break two to three years from now, some of traditional nature, others sport and extensions of other areas. any potential guidebook author trying to write about Oregon should at least take it heart that people want a. crags that have real relevance, size and scope b. don't have access issues c. first ascent beta is important (if you don't think so read up Watts, Thomas, Dodge, I could go on) d. cover the area adequately and effectively (don't just toss lines on rocks and give people driving directs) AND DO NOT EVER rename and regrade a route thats existed since the 70's and try and claim it as your own because you think your cool writing a guide book (see sisters area of Falcon Oregon). If you thought some surly comments were coming before, bring em on!!! Che

as someone who climbed with powderhound...I will take the blame for his attitude for climbers in the state. Those are harsh words against someone who has a deep respect for the people who have gone out of their way to protect places that are pretty sacred. Maybe if you lived in a state where every other f ing crag that gets seen, heard about or "developed" ends up full of bolts years after other "developers" applied better ethics. Montana is a state with a sound Community that acts and forsees climbing areas for their full potential, with the PRESERVATION of the crag in mind. Oregon tends towards maverick developing with no regard for over-bolting. If you want to err your grievances with Oregon climbers who are too hush hush about crags. Give me a call you already have my #. Otherwise I would say most Oregon climbers are generous with both crag beta and safety methods etc.... The balance the jlag talks about is right on.

corvallisclimb brings up the most incredible point.... no one is talking about whether or not the fact that this guide which poorly portrays the states rich history and ethical debates. There seems to be some transplanted oregons who care enough about climbing areas in general to pass on info and ask questions about the state of affairs, yet few "Oregonian" climbers step up and discuss how we are going to be percieved at the national level, now that a (I agree with corvallisclimb, the new guide was pretty poorly done) "falcon type" state guide exists, how do people feel about it ?????????????????????????????????????? Having gone through a lot of material on bolting over the state obviously things get heated when the 'b' word comes up. How come only a handful of people even care when a state guide comes out???

I'm that hippie who will weave it into a rope rug. I've made one to fill a room and currently have a gear shop I'm working a job at I'm trying to fill the floor space. Only need 50+ old ropes. The more coloful the better. Anyone looking to unload some old ratty ropes give me a pm. I'll pickup

I'd believe the man. Having belayed him, as he onsite led four hard 5.10+ trad lines in an afternoon, I give him a fighting chance freeing the turkey. Must be somethin in the water in Montana.

What region of the cascades are you in? I'm in the market for one , I like the price and I travel enough that if your close I'd check it out right away...

I frequent the place and support texplorer's assertion that Bill does not want to see the place on the web due to the access repurcussions. Is there anyway this thread can be removed and/or edited for the sake of future access issues. It was ommitted from the new guides for a reason, if the moderator of this website stepped in they would be doing a lot of goodddd......