Checat

Only chiming in on rads point about both sides being happier. I take my toddler bouldering, to places where she is out about of strollers and kids back pack a greater percentage than strapped up "immobolized". Rads point is totally right on. I've found my near 19 month yo loving to go out, she crawls in her bob when she feels like it, points and grabs at the baby backpack when she wants to be in it and otherwise has a great time while daddy gets to boulder. hard transition for me because boltless single to multi pitch trad development was my favorite form of climbing, but you make sacrifices, because they are in fact your kids... bouldering isn't too much of a compromise (': just my 2 cents

Why? You don't need pitons to clean aid city park. Ed Leeper camming hooks? Ball-nuts, peckers? The whole point of clean-aiding City Park, an oft-aided climb is to avoid pitons?

bonathonjarrett - This^ is your list. Right on Frankazoid! And if sender films makes more - stay on top of it! Other goodies, West Coast Pimps (Maybe harder to find) Front Range Freaks Friction Addiction (Can't miss John Gill sections) Rampage My list is a little dated...

That makes a lot more sense. NorthBend, or has minimally redeeming value...

Frankazoid- totally off the topic of pulling guns and armed citizens - but - are you really out of North Bend, ORe? I've never met a climber from that region? Coastal stuff must be gettin ya by when you can't drive instate? Bandon boulders are sick!

Yes you should have brought climbing gear and climbed at Williamson Crags. That place kicks ass! Looks like you made the most of your time though.

What's the difference between a mountain guide and a large pizza? A large pizza can feed a family of four

The access battle for the Sisters -Mariah lane region boulders came down to ponying up a large portion of cash. I believe it was the Access Fund that stepped in for that particular climbing area. Maybe someone living in Sisters can attest to the local advocacy and combined (or independent) efforts with Access Fund to purchase the 2 real estate properties that this quality bouldering area sat on?

The issues of Madrone Wall and the impending issues of Skull Hollow are certainly issues that Oregon's branch of the Access Fund should and will deal with. I have been a due paying and card carrying member of the Access Fund since 2000, when I began climbing and frankly I have some frustrations with the Access Fund Oregon. For as long as I've been a member my local branch has hardly represent me. Maybe it has always been the distance between myself and my local climbing crags to Portland and Bend, maybe I'm not a climber well suited to be an Access Fund member? On multiple occasions, through multiple representatives I have attempted to get the Access Fund involved with areas that interest and are local to me with zero success. The efforts, time and money of the Oregon Access Fund has been squarely focused on high interest crags in larger population places. I don't live in Timbuktu. I live in the Southern Valley and used to live in the Rogue, and have never felt an Access Fund presence. The crags I climb at run the gambit of access issues from ownership issues, trail development needs, fixed protection ethical concerns etc... In all my letter writing, emailing and phone calls I have had little traction in getting the Access Fund to work for me. Does that mean I think you shouldn't pay your dues and be a member of the Access Fund? No. You should, especially if you climb out of the state, you'd be surprised at the Access Funds influence elsewhere. But what I will promote is, if you pay your dues, and you do the right thing by joining the Access Fund - Make sure the AF is working for you. If you feel less than represented or even worse misrepresented, voice this. You don't have to be penalized in access management just because you don't climb at the climbing areas receiving major attention.

I will second Mr. Ortons comments in terms of climbing above the fog at the Callahans in the winter is an amazing experience. So often you can catch a great day climbing above the fog, where the rest of valley may have stayed socked in.

Great job!

What a great forum. I've used the Munter for belaying, lowering and rappelling. Mastery of the Munter is a (or at least was a) foundational piece of entry into the American Mountain Guide Association to guide at any level on rock. I went through the TRCSM course some years back and utilizing a munter hitch it belay, to lower and to rappel on a 6mm cord to negotiate the "edge" and lower the guide below the master point from a distance well above the master point. Guide courses change, but I have little doubt that mastery of the Munter is still a foundational piece of the AMGA and you should question guide associations that don't start with this hitch, and then transition to mastery of belay devices. Hate the kinks and loops, looking forward to trying techniques of rectifying this...

For most of the guidebooks I'm addressing they are very specific to the regions, areas and crags that they cover, thus guidebooks written by climbers. As far as major complaints my only gripe with most of those are they're price tag for the number, type and quality of routes they describe. If I'm paying roughly the same or more for the entire SW Oregon climbing series (60 bones) as Watts new Smith Guide shouldn't I expect the same amazing upgrades and increased route count as Watts was able to do? If he can do it, why can't I expect the same of other guidebook authors? If I want cerebral needs met I'd probably reread Don Mellor's American Rock or Laura and Guy Watermans stuff, or even guidebooks to areas like the Gunks or the Dacks. To defend "Scramble" guides- there is a great one the Columbia River Gorge that describes obscure towers, gullies and other monstrosities. Its a little niche, not even being to a mountain system but still a great guide for Oregonians and Washingtonians.

Interesting. I didn't realize the alternative for Binghams was worse. You are right in regard to his explanations of the chipping, gluing stuff in regard to the Competition wall. I think he even talked about Yaniro's Gym (idaho/oregon border, the worst of the chipped, glued stuff). For its cost and the number of pages I guess I would have rather seen something that had less routes and more description and focus on quality routes. He did break off a fair amount of the COR, and tried to give climbers options to drive out to the middle of nowhere and find crags where there weren't lines- that's a bonus. It just seems like as a guidebook it underscores amazing routes and doesn't provide much for guidance towards the most quality lines. I don't live in Idaho. I wouldn't even know how it is in comparison to other COR guides, because its the only COR guide I have.

As far as new guides- For the out of state visitor to Smith - Wolverine Publishing's select is great. Will only get you on so many routes though - but for the routes it covers and cost, great. Extreme Angles (publishing) is making the best new guides IMO. Their Needles guide is great. Seemless incorporation of history, ethics and local lore, all through full page photography including vintage shots and fun stuff. I haven't picked up their Vedauwoo guide but I've heard its quality. Candidates for low-quality for the price tag - Binghams City of Rocks. Used to be a big fan of Greg Orton's series until he started re-charging the same 20-60 bucks for the same routes every 5 years. New guide, new material. Why else would you expect people to pony up more dough? When Tim Olson omitted Madrone Wall from his latest editions, you figure he did it because the area had been closed, but now unless you have his original edition - a lot of people are going to have to pony up again for route info decades old. Slightly cheeky if it was money based but I'm sure that wasn't his motivation. Guidebook authors that are money-driven - no way? One of my first guidebooks and still one of my favorites- despite its confusing times:

second that, not to mention in the park itself.

It has smithrocks.com you sendin in the south yet...carolinas, tenn., you 've got some granite and some sandstone in your future don't you?

Actually I would be stoked to find out that people were climbing the cliffbands... and what better forum than a website forum that dug up a Sweet Home Husky of 1970's clout. No one to this point has laid claims to 5.8 and 5.9 crack lines - Mr Alpine Glower?

So sorry to bring you into anything and waste your time. Simply remembered that last time the topic came up you had a whole list of OSU dudes. Thought it was in the 80's, thought it was earlier than the 90's. Not a boulderer ok. I'm getting on the cliffs out there now, so its not technically only a bouldering area right?

I'm glad that anything having to do with the garden and bouldering on cascadeclimbers is a silly idea and a waste of time to you. No they never renamed it cascade boulders but last time I checked there wasn't a "No Bouldering Allowed" disclaimer as you entered the site. Seems like their is enough people interested in the topic that its continued, and meeting someone who bouldered there in the 1970's is unbeatable. I'm much more interested in "working together" or collaborating with someone who was sending stuff in the 1970's 80's and 90's then someone repeating routes in the 2000's and then calling them new. That has much more intrigue and interest than someone repeating stuff 9 years after I did and then telling me I climbed his problem. Its not my legacy I'm looking into. Its the climber who came before me. It's be great for alpine glowers story to check out. Vhard in the 70's, where does the Willy Valley's bouldering check in for its time and place? Behind Gill obviously, but concurrent with Smoke Blanchard and Dale Bard in Bishop, maybe? Do the Gardeners of the 1970's compare to J-trees scene at the time (John Long, Lynn Hill, Bachar etc...? How difficult did our 1970's problems compare to the earliest stuff at some of the earliest bouldering areas like Hueco, Gunks etc... Were we way behind these areas at the time or right to par? Why do people on this website make a point comment on something that they apparently don't care about. If you didn't care about it, why did you post? I ignore many things I don't care about and I certainly wouldn't waste my time posted if it was "a silly waste of time" to me.

Shapp, this is when you come in with your list of usual suspects from the mid-to late 1980's (was that right?) Could you sum up what grade range you were climbing? (5.9 hard to V5/6?) I'm having a hard time remembering when the pro's broke the V5 barrier let alone when weekend warriors were crushing through the V5/V6 threshold? This distinction is pretty important for the garden because the place is all about its extreme difficulty for some...

Alpine glower- i'll prob follow this with pm but whatever It would be a blessing for the raging debate over the garden to break down to controversy over the implications of First Ascent in regard to the Late 1980's early 1990's crowd, the group that you were involved in with the implied 1970's early 1980's timeframe, and even Shapp's OSU crew that fell somewhere in there (as he insists). This is all looking at a history to The Garden, err Enchanted Forest... from a historical perspective. My frustrations are with the projected names, grades and "FAs" of a group of climbs whose personal histories go back as far as 2006/2007. My personal history with the area goes to 2001. Those are not my names, their not my FA's. They were what were given to me then (01, 02) and now. In regard to violence at crags, maybe it was too much to assume that it should be assumed the comment is tongue and cheek. If your a personal friend of mine you know that what I'm getting as is constantly having to roll my eyes whenever I hear a 2009 monicker and grade to a problem or boulder that I've known to be something else since 01. If what your saying is true in regard to a 70's history, if what Shappart has said in regard to the 80's history, in collaboration with what has been gathered for the 90's; concurrent to what I thought before - the Garden is as rich with history as it is with poison oak. To go to the next extent, there would be great value in cross-referencing the problems and find out where the Willamette Valley was progressively during the changeover from when the 5.10 scale ended, what problems were being done at 5.9+ then later discovered as V this and V that. Its amazing what climbers achieved in obscurity before the modern expanded grade scale came into fruition.

I'm not sure if herbal-tee is Peter Franzen but i've pmed whoever commented on this site to that they "have the ability to make correct changes on rc.com". If this person is really interested in getting things right, I'll even add more content to Rc.com along with the fixing of erronous stuff, see if rc.com can take it over the top- At this point I think its a matter of fighting bad info with good info. if the right info is as readily available as the misinformation whether it be web or printed - at least there is a start to getting the correct nostalgic names, grades and FAists... Gardeners, *throw out those cheesy new fake monickers, get ready for -Scratch and Spliff Boulder *Whorf *Scratch and Spliff *Illustrious Buddha -Sonya Boulder *Sonya Traverse -PB's Scratchy Balls Boulder *PB's Scratchy Balls *Oak Sucks -The Bubbler Boulder *The Bubbler -Boys in the Woods Boulder *Boys in the Woods -The Ship -The Meth Lab *_____'s Magic Bus *Leave it to Jesus(thats a new one that stuck) -Angry Grandma Boulder *Angry Grandma *Angry Mom -Francois Boulder *Francois *Big Fred *Slopedon Milosovich *Family Affair 5.6 *Backside Baldo -Azian Boulder *Hula (the original, that will never have another FAist) *Oregon Arete *Full Stroke Dyno *Double Pad Start *Azian Crack 5.8 *Into the Light -Fight Club Boulder *Fight Club -Mini-Me Boulder *Mini-Me -Undertow Boulder *Undertow and it goes on and on and on... if you run into me out there and I hear locksnuff or mockternal or any of that other bullshit- don't be surprised if you get clocked in the head...

By Clint's guide do you mean the really simple black and white manuscript only available at the Grocery Store in Index?

Ignoring more experienced people who were climbing an area long before this would-be author even came to the state, and choosing to go with your own names grades and FAists' - despite the information being handed top you freely has nothing to do with the "real work" of publishing a book. I don't know what areas and people Dane is referring to but in regard to the Garden - this is simply someone ignoring those around them for the sake of seeing their own name attached to their illegitimate modern "First ascents". If the information is hard to get...its defendable and an honest mistake...but in this scenario the information is out there and mr. cyclone chooses to ignore - thats irresponsible guidebook work