JosephH

Easy to say, and sounds great, but do tell (any of you) - detail a single incident of 'abuse' or being lied to by a BRSP ranger (Steve, Heather, Erik, John, Vivian, or Ben - name'em).

Look, you are under the mistaken impression I give a rats ass at this point or am interested in climbing or socializing with this crew. It's a lame social club of pathetic whining and imaginary 'bad boys' largely divorced from actual climbing these days. OH MY GOD WE ARE SO OPPRESSED!!! But are a single one of you prepared to do anything real about it? It's nothing more than a smack-talking, neo-nostalgic, feel-good circle jerk behind a rock when it comes to any aspect of interacting with the policies, agencies and people who manage Beacon. When you get right down to it the number one priority is clearly whining, not climbing.

Cooperation, competition, and cooptition are all in evidence in nature and I suspect 'fairness' is an enevitable outcome of cooperation as a survival strategy. I'd say that in competition, almost by definition, 'cheating' is a very peculiar notion and one which would have to be 'unnaturally' imposed on a system. Take life and feeding on a coral reef - it's a ghastly competition where eating without being eaten is the name of the game and there are no rules. What does 'cheating' even mean in that context? How strange the notion of 'cheating' is in competition can also be seen again and again on Wall Street and in American corporate board rooms where we as a society attempt to impose 'fairness' where it is clearly as unnatural as 'fidelity' in Hollywoood or politics. You might get all warm and fuzzy talking about 'fairness' in competition, but that warm feeling could just as easily be either a dog or the chairman of Goldman Sachs pissing on your leg. Or at least that's one monkey's opinion...

It's pretty obvious at this point given you can't seem to come up with anything remotely approaching an objective fact relative to the Peregrines or the closure. You guys can cry together all you want on pm's, but don't bother 'coming out' until at least one of you is prepared to deal with the adults who manage the rock. They aren't vaguely moved or impressed by your angst, sense of injustice, or what you want - they deal in facts. You're barking up the wrong tree if you think sympathy is going to play any role in the matter, so stow the pleading.

Works for me. Clueless whiners should have just such a place.

And god knows moving to Colorado has certainly been a worthy contribution to their continued well-being. She agrees and approves your message... [ taken this morning... ]

My wife is a 10-year yoga practicioner who could kick my ass doing just about anything. I take her up Beacon's SE Face every so often. Last time she started to say something about difficulty/fear and I asked her if she 'was a yogi or not' - it earned me a dirty look but she effortlessly floated the rest of it. As you just noted mindset, self-perceptions, and outlook all count.

It would be an access issue if there were ever something more substantive than woeful plaintives being discussed.

================================================= *** YOU - ARE - STILL - NOT - GETTING - IT *** ================================================= It doesn't matter what 'the group' wants (as if we don't already know what the group wants...); what the group 'wants' is irrelevant without some - any - legitimate, reality-based (read legal, policy, or science-based) arguments for why anything should change. There is no point whatsoever in telling any agency 'what we want' unless you can cite and support specific legal and / or policy changes. What we might 'want' holds the same weight as our 'opinions' - i.e. none. ================================================= *** YOU - ARE - STILL - NOT - GETTING - IT *** =================================================

I think we should reserve the eastern most parking spot for that baby - looks like you could post complaints straight to youtube from the parking lot.

In general, thinking and runaway mental babble IS the problem with fear so I wouldn't recommend making the internal 'dialogue' any worse then it already is - better to just stay focused 100% on the task at hand versus doing more 'talking' to try and 'calm' yourself. First tip for breaking 5.10/.11 - lose 5, 10 or 15 pounds if you have it hanging around. It makes it a lot easier to bust a grade.

Well, unless and until you're willing to get ruthless with illegal employers and carry a national ID card you're just whistling that tune up your own asshole.

Well there's problem with your whole approach - no one's 'opinion', including mine, counts for squat when it comes to the law, policy, or science relating to the Peregrine closure. So it really doesn't matter a damn if I state my opinion, you state your opinion, or you collect and distill a hundred opinions - the State of Washington and WDFW don't make policy based on opinions. That's why I made the other thread on the off hand chance any of you have anything more than whines and opinions. Ideas, facts, or cogent arguments presented so far that might support dropping, altering, or narrowing the closure - zilch, nada, not a single one. And again, have at any of my statements above you think are incorrect in any way - tear'em dude, or present your own.

Yep, but they'd get that writing done a lot faster if they could actually come up with some ideas or arguments around the closure which are a bit more succinct than "wwwaaaagghhh".

Anglin in his 50s did it in what, like 11 hours... Aid Blackberry Jam a few times...

Yep, won't say a word about any ideas for lifting or changing the closure, should any appear. Other than that just answering Plaidman's question.

No, the Peregrines at Smith and in PDX have 1-2 week old chicks, the Peregrines further up the Gorge have eggs or just hatched, at Beacon we don't know yet as we can't see into the nest. They are definitely NOT flying and won't be for some number of weeks.

You can do that, but where are all the ideas for eliminating, shortening, or changing the closure?

I was going to say he looks ass backwards...

One less nut at the next Tea Party.

Any ideas at all yet...?

Which is the other thread...?

Amazingly, it wasn't until quite recently that having an honorable DD214 didn't mean you were a citizen or able to become one. And we are still recruiting non-citizens for the military.

No more to tell, it's turned off in all my cars; end of story.