JosephH

Where do you get a statement like that? Like anything is "standard procedure". I've been doing this as a "standard procedure" for decades in high wind situations and especially in the Gorge every winter.

You can also knot and take the rope with you either stacked or in a ropebag and feed it out. As another alternative you can throw it without a knot, rap 1/2 - 3/4 of the way, do a leg rap, pull up the ends and knot them, and then proceed.

They juxtaposition of the banalities of your work and your perception of extremes is clearly affecting your judgment.

And wish him well for another year on the stone...

Ultimate tensile strength was just a straight test of the sling itself.

Got the results of the testing of a sampling of my retired three year old Mammut 8mm Dyneema slings. These numbers are down from the two year old test average of about 14kn. These are normally rated 22kn new: # 1) 8 mm Mammut girth hitched to 3/4" Nylon = 11.55 kN. # 2) 3/4" Nylon girth hitched to 8 mm Mammut = 11.76 kN. # 3) 8 mm Mammut girt hitched to 13 mm Dyneema = 8.32 kN. # 4) 8 mm Mammut girth hitched to biner = 12.28 kN. # 5) Ultimate tensile strength = 11.24 kN. # 6) Ultimate tensile strength = 11.9 kN.

And you badly need to drop some even if it is years, if not decades, too late...

Laws delineate the limits and boundaries of behavior. Many people behave badly, but know the laws and how to skirt or surf them quite well. Personal morality, ethics and behavior are essentially all requisite for laws to work en masse. The Bush administration is an excellent example of a group of people whose collective approach to governing has been extra-legal since day one having inherited that mindset from the Reagan administration. It takes months and years for the "law" to catch up with such people and it sometimes never does. I will agree that "right" and "wrong" often have many varied interpretations, but there are also times when things are clearly "wrong" and it's seems to be almost a disease these days that people sadly and endlessly equivocate and rationalize what should be a simple 'judgment' call. In the Imus case one can debate what the appropriate response should be, but anyone defending his statements via any line of argument or rationalization should look hard in the mirror.

Fear.

Funny this came up. Recently we have had some bolting activity around bozeman that involves conrad. He is working on this area that is all basalt (not columns) edges, where you are only allowed to bolt ground up. There are some other rules I guess like on the first bolt you boulder up until you quiver and that is the high spot for the first bolt. Now before you bolt it, another person can challenge the route and by bouldering up higher and establishing a new high point for the route. It has turned out some pretty good routes as well as adding character to an area. This is a ridiculous and stupid for establishing "sport" routes. Sounds like a fun, but scary, way to hurt yourself...and an ego stroke (of which most climbing is anyways). how hard are the established routes? Dunno, sounds like they're attempting to insure there is actually some sport left in them...

Hopefully he's not forgetting the puppies while he's at it...

I got together with Conrad about some other, non-alpine business when he was in town last and he's as standup as his rep would suggest. I suspect if they take down any fixed stuff they'll leave it down. Edit: though, on second thought they may need that stuff to get the IMAX camera up with them, that thing is a cow.

My girlfriend is a physical therapist. Her co-workers practically worship her and she has been a huge help to me getting through some bouts with tendonitis. Her take on running after 50 is that you need to be very careful not to overdo it. If you injure a hip or knee joint, you still have to get to the bathroom, kitchen, work, chase the kids, and so-on. Healing typically takes longer and long term joint problems are common. Your 36 miles a week sounds reasonable. A little less would be wise if you are also humping a climbing pack up trails etc. Her point it so spread out the workout. Things like your swimming are a huge help. She has me on a total body workout which is easy for me since I work at home and found a Boflex for $150 at a garage sale. I keep the weights low and lots of repetitions (20-30). Now I have to cut back on the chocolate Easterbunnies. I certainly appreciate the warning - I'm already on notice to take it easy on the swimming for my left shoulder. The conundrum is that either I give up my goals, or I give up the weight as doing what I have in mind above 172 will just be too hard on all off my joints and I've never been able to loose weight without running. I am just running on a treadmill at the climbing gym and am quite careful about it. In the end I will no doubt pay a price for some of this, and though shortsighted even at my age, I'm willing to pay it for the moment.

Your point? Something I said here? Or is it the other thread? True, I don't just rollover and play nice in terms of my ethics simply because they are no longer popular. If you check you'll see my cc postings are pretty damn sporatic.

It's not about bolts and existing routes. It's about entitlement, access, and the 'right' to not be told what or how to climb. And what if they don't give a rat's ass about your ridiculous ancient ethics? You want to climb it with ropes and bolts, the next guy wants to climb it with rungs and cables. They can simply run it parallel to the Nose four feet to the side all the way. Again, what would be the harm? Later.

That's why we call it perspective. IB was done with the worst of intentions from mine. That they got there first is irrelavent - they had no more right to bolt it than anyone else does to remove it.

Kevin, no, you are missing the point and fairly dramatically at that. Exactly how would a cable up the Nose be 'an atrocity'? Would it be just the idea of it? That it would offend your ethics? Who would it harm?

And more likely to follow that one in the years to come at the rate installations are going in around the U.S.

Off, no problem on that front. I've read about Jeff's motivation relative to their creation - I simply disagree with him and others doing so and have no problem saying it to theirs or anyone else's face. That the via ferrata drive in the U.S. is taking place on private land makes perfect sense as will the drive to establish via ferratas in the Valley, Smith, Eldo, Devils Tower and other areas on public land. That drive will arrive in the exact same logic Kevin is using for IB - that to not allow via ferratas on [public] crags is an act of denying people their right [and entitlement] to climb. Kevin wants to climb IB on bolts - someone else is going to want to climb the Nose on a cable. He has no right to dictate how they climb and the question they'll pose is: exactly how does a via ferrata harm anyone? There is no difference whatsoever. And if you think one doesn't lead to the other; or that via ferratas aren't the logical, if not inevitable, extension of gyms and [commercialized] sport climbing, then you're all more naive and tripping harder than I thought. When that day comes, just remember it's a bigger world than your ancient, backwards, and elitist sport climbing era - if you don't want to step on that rung or clip that cable then don't. And don't bitch about imaginary problems of via ferrata installations "harming" the rock because they don't and the rest of your complaints will just be "ideas" without substance. And, hell, who's going to care what a few of you whining old losers think anyway.

My, my, clipping bolts really does help you develop a delicate sensibility. Via ferratas, MLUs, and access restrictions come right along in the wake of disasters like IB and your righteous indignation at the mere suggestion you don't have a god-given entitlement to risk-free climbing. Have to wonder how many of you would be climbers tomorrow if bolts evaporated tonight. Not many I suspect.

Is the conversation making you uncomfortable?

Big in Europe, now creeping through the U.S.

Phil, Wank is about right, do you have anything of substance to add to a discussion you actually know something about? Or is it all just wanking? From looking back through your posts it looks like a weak wank-to-substance ratio...

Well, say we kill all the world's gorillas or all the Redwoods - is that 'harming' anyone or is it just an idea? If we put a via ferrata up on the outer left side of Blownout is that 'harming' anyone or is it just an idea? If we tripled up the bolts on YW would that be 'harming' anyone or just an idea?

No, I'm saying it's inappropriate for a bolted route to exist there at all - it has nothing whatsoever to do with you. It is in no way different than saying I find it wholly inappropriate to smoke in daycare centers. With regards to "harm" - loop to here: