selkirk

I think part of it is clean-ability as well--- Nuts usually end up fixed because the can't be forced backward and out of the constiction due to awkward placements, wavy cracks vs straight nut tools etc. Cams, once they're completely out of camming range your hosed. Hexes though typically require larger cracks that offer more manueverability then with nuts, and should be able to be backed out, unlike cams.

I think it depends on lots and lots of things. If by modern climber, you mean someone putting up 5.11 trad routes in the alpine then, no probably not. When your twitching an hanging on one arm it's tough to find the time to futz a bit with hexes. That said, I think hexes or tri-cams still certainly have a place. 1. Lighter (especially the Wild Country) (though the margin is closing) 2. Better in shitty rock or iced up cracks. 3. Easier to evaluate what a "good" placement is, much less worry of walking, or overcamming. (I've only seen 1 fixed hex so far, but a reasonable number of fixed cams and nuts) 4. More disposable in a pinch. Would you really rather leave behind the $60 cam or the $10 hex? So.. my .02 cents? Worth having a few as redudant pieces. Instead of doubling up on cams that you may or may not need.

There's a climb I did last summer that i've never figured out what it was (likely in the 5.7+range) out at RC, and I was wondering if anyone had any thoughts? It was on the climbers right hand side of the area. Two cracks on either side of a column, one offwidth, one thin-fingers/pro only. At the top transitioned to a few face moves, then finished on a bit set of chains, on the pillar just left of the left hand crack. I think on the next face over from the pillar there was quite old fixed hex (different route though). Haven't seen Ford and Yoder but was curious. Need climb, knee jams and arm bars followed by sketcy face moves to protect in the other crack as I only had 1 big cam

So last question... How long for the Pioneer Route? (5 pitches, 1 scramble, 1 trad, 1 aid, 1 bolt, 1 scramble) For 2 people looks like about 4 or 5 hours to me? and for 3, add an hour? And the west side variation? More technical, so add another 1/2 hour? Heading down to smith tomorrow so if anyone see's a group gaping on the monkey on monday, might be us

Nope, not yet. Haven't found a good weekend yet! This is certainly amusing though

Is anyone else a little jazzed about this? I"m sitting at a nice random location in the u district pretending to work! http://www.therainiervalley.com/seattle_wifi.html

Not my own anyway, how about yours?

saw of few of those about 30 seconds before one hell of a thunderstorm started out in Delaware. With lighting, kind of reminded me of looking into a crevasse. So cool!!

after 4 beers, were all irish.

But V8 lacks that ever so satisfying crunch of little bits of embedded kitty litter.

Flippin Sweet! And i've heard republicans say they can tell Hillary is the devil cause they've seen her horns! Did anyone catch the Leno bit a couple of nights ago comparing GW to Darth Vader?

would be willing to throw my votes behind Classic and Dog Leg in the Icicle, seemed stiff to me. Or TUIB, most strenuous 5.9 i've been on. (I think Smoot gave it a 10c though ) I'm surprise no one has mentioned Midway through, scariest piece of 5.5 I've ever been on!

Last thing I heard was that the abstinance only push is only being marginally effective at best. It does increase the amount of time that those who take it wait before having sex before marriage, but the rates of sex before marriage are roughly equivalent. However it also strongly increases the likelihood of undertaking risky behaviour as they don't have an easy, non-judgemental avenue to get information regarding sex from. The other issue that seems to be coming up is that currently there is the impression in kids that "sex" is only "intercourse", and that if your not doing that everything else is relatively safe and kosher, since it's not discussed in the abstinance-only curriculum. good on you GW, your really looking out for the interests of the nation Now if we can just extend this philosophy everywhere!

that's funny neither did I....

ok, can't speak for the second.... and i've hung on gear, but never pulled

The follower will probably have a little less experience than me (both of us leading for a little over a year, but i've been doing quite a bit more). More than confident on the free stuff, but neither of us have french freed, or aid climbed so i'm trying to scope out what i'll need to do to get through the bolt ladder. Thanks for all the info everyone.

All those who voted against W. have guaranteed themselves the right to bitch and moan all we want. To those Volunteering and actively trying to change things to you! unluckily me things it requires a policy making body that gives a shit what people other than those who voted for them think GW is a lame duck at the moment. He's not up for re-election so he can do anything he wants so long as it'll get past the Republican House/Senate, and that's a scary thought.

That's not the whole question though, just a convient simplification trying to paint things in terms of us/them, black/white, good/evil. How about can we accomplish the same ends through other means than torture? Does torture actually help our cause and advance our goals, or is it detrimental to them? And possibly most telling, is it an effective, important tool, or is it a unnecessary byproduct of our disregard for those who we identify as "the enemy", or as un-american? They aren't american, so they're less, and therefore our actions don't mean as much? If were going to decry their torture, and murder of our civilian contractors and military personal, and respond with retaliation, then they have every right to as well. WE ARE ALL HUMAN. To believe that they are simply bent on distruction of everything because they are "evil" is naive and prideful. In their own minds, we are invaders, we are destroying their culture, they're way of life, we are "evil". You want to win this war, really, truly, finally, and completely? Don't torture them, kill them, humiliate them. That only lends credence to their beliefs. Change their minds. "Winning the Hearts and Minds" was the perfect aspiration in Vietnam, it was just very poorly pursued. To win this kind of a war you need to stifle terrorist recruitment. They're blowing themselves up already, with more people inline to do the same, do you think they care if we kill a few more through torture? Or minor skirmishes? Its necessary to change how the US is percieved by the populace and the poor. And right now by many accounts were doing a crappy job. And every case of abuse, detainment without charge, transfering prisoners elsewhere for abuse, every dirty little thing we do makes their case stronger, and their recruitment easier. You can't stop terrorism by killing all the terrorists. Hasn't the conflict in Israel been enough to show that? You can lock them down, take away any and all weapons, attack at every chance you get, and if people are willing to commit suicide to make their point, there is very little you can do stop them. Unless you kill ALL OF THEM. And I don't even know of the neo-cons have the stomach for that.

mala- whatta? I'm going to have to look that up. what can I say, it's eary, and I haven't had my coffee.

Any tricks for cleaning the draws, if the second jugs on a seperate rope?

saw one yesterday, upside down on for some reason, that said "I poke badgers with spoons" For some reason that's just endlessly amusing, just like this Just have to love dancing badgers!

hmmm, is it worth warning them about the swing? Or is there a good spot above you can get a picture of their face from as they drop into space?

I think I must be missing something here?

Just wondering if anyone has any suggestions on prepping for the Pioneer Route on Monkeyface? The freeclimbing part shouldn't be a problem. I'm just wondering what i'll need for the bold ladder? ?Gear? Leader 2 aiders 2 Daisys a few quick draws for the follower 2 ascenders? can I get away with old school Gibbs, or will something a little newer work better? How about a Gibbs ascender and a prusik? Is it worth trying to practice on a bolt ladder somewhere, or is thrutching, cursing, and general gaperdom expected on the aid section? (as I have zero aid experience and neither will the 2nd). Also, trail 2 ropes on that section (lead rope plus a second line not clipped through the bolts for jugging) or just the lead line? Thanks All Hopefully I won't make too big a fool of myself. Either that or at least there will be amusing pictures

Yep, Condi in 2008,