MisterMo

Wow, I am amazed at the logical leaps people will take to defend a reprehesible action so they can sleep at night. Create a "superflu". Um sorry. Bio-Engineered viruses and bacteria were not feasible until restriction endonucleases were used to manipulate DNA in the late 80s. Up until then, germ warfare consited of spreading already isolated bugs from nature (like smallpox). It just goes to show how people will believe nearly anything that plays off their fears. thats how the Iraq war was justified and sold to the american people. Gee, what if we instead negotiated a truce after the firebombings, which actually killed more civilians? You could make a strong case for America being the biggest terrorist in history next to Nazi Germany. Dont think we were terrorists then and now? REmember the term Bonzai? It came from the Japanese men, women, and children that lined up to jump off a sea cliff named "Bonzai" from fear of being captured by Americans or killed on our terms. That was the terrorized mindset they lived and died with. WE targeted civilians. We targeted cities. We should pay for our war-crimes. WE dont because we won and we think we are moral but we are assuredly not. Fight evil with more evil? Ummm, okay. Einstein. Likely one of, if not the, the most intelligent people in modern history, was a hard-core pacifist nand activist. Despite popular legend, he lived in reality. He envisioned a way to settle differences other than by killing and terror. We just dont want to listen. I dont know why. Not to be horribly pedantic, but Bonsai (with an o and an s) are those really cool dwarf trees that MisterE posts pictures of now and again. Banzai (with an a and a z) were Japanese infantry charges.......essentially suicidal and rarely succesful against machine guns and artillery The tragic civilian suicides on were neither of the above; they were just tragic suicides.

There was a fire on Dirty Face Mountain at Lake Wenatchee last week. Most likely still burning to some extent & maybe what you saw. Don't know how controlled it was but as of thursday the residential evacuation deal had gone down from a 3 to a 2

Somewhat randomly: The atomic genie was very much out of the bottle well before Hiroshima. Once the technology was developed its use somewhere, sometime, by someone was pretty much a foregone conclusion. Maybe the best use of ones mental energies on the topic is to work to ensure that it is never used again. Curtis Lemay, the architect of the firebombing of Japanese cities, was once quoted, by Manchester I think, as saying that had Japan won the war he would have undoubtedly been hung as a war criminal. As big as the numbers of dead at Hiroshima are, they must, I believe, be viewed in the context of the war as a whole: what was it? 30 million dead worldwide....a whole lot of whom were civilians. Civilian deaths at the hands of the Japanese are said to have been, if I recall correctly, 100,000 in Manila alone.

It is regrettable that morality is a moving target, but that is the case. In war morality is often determined by whether one is on the winning or losing side. In the context of the war against Japan it may be helpful to recall that the capture of Okinawa, the last island 'before' Japan, consumed approx 50,000 American casualties. Estimates of American casualties in an invasion of Japan itself ranged around a million. The defeat of Japan was, of course, deemed essential, not elective..........hence the Atomic bomb.

Snazzy! Cool pix.

There were color coded dots on the Index wall trails once. They all 'vanished'. I'm not the one who vanished them but I supported the act; they were butt ugly and offensive. I would predict a similar fate for colored dots at Colchuck. I hate to seem like a grim smartass but if circumnavigating Colchuck Lake in the dark without 'issues' is too difficult, waiting for the sun to come up is always an option. If the cairns bother you, just give them the boot.

Maybe.........as a suggestion...........a thought is to get some sort of a permanent Icicle acquisition fund going. Try to get it stuffed with cash and keep it that way, to be able to snap things up as they come on the market rather than having to do 11th hour, nail-biting appeals as was the case with Sam Hill. I don't have millions to contribute but I'd do some & I'd be really happy to work on such a project.

It appears that reports of a Memorial at White Pass were incorrect: Subject: Dave Mahre Memorial Information Dave "Spike" Mahre, White Pass Mountain Manager (ret.), passed away this weekend. Dave had been a key figure in the development of skiing at White Pass since the 1950's and his dedication to the area along with his contribution to the sport is unmatched. Dave served as Mountain Manager from 1962 through 1993 and he continued to contribute to the daily operation of the ski area despite his "retirement". Dave defined retirement as an opportunity to spend more time helping others while continuing to make sure the ski area was operating smoothly. It's difficult to imagine a season without him; however we expect that his legacy and his tremendous spirit will live on at White Pass. We know that you, our extended White Pass family, will miss him as much as we do. Dave is survived by his nine children, twenty grandchildren, and one great-granddaughter. A vigil will be held at Holy Family Catholic Church on 56th and Tieton in Yakima Wednesday July 27th at 7 p.m. The funeral will be held at Holy Family Catholic Church on Thursday July 28th at 11 a.m. and will be followed by a reception. There will not be a memorial at the ski area on the weekend of July 30 and 31st as reported in some newspaper accounts of Dave's passing.

I betcha that if one actually took some time to quantify and compare impacts over their respective service lives the impacts of those homes would be much closer to, if not actually surpassing, the impacts of the tunnel than you'd think. From a climber's standpoint which has more impact on your going climbing in the Icicle..............A)the housing at say Rat Creek or 8 Mile? or B)the portal of a tunnel somewhere on Mt. Cashmere? Right on.

I'd like to here express my admiration and respect for Dave and others from the entreprenureal generation of ski area people. Having come from both the era of the Great Depression and the infancy of mechanized skiing they could do so very much with so very little. I learned a lot from guys of that generation and will miss them a great deal.

He hangs here, at least on occasion. PM me your contact info & I'll forward it to him.

Primus/Tricouni have been approached from Thunder Creek so one could exit that way as well. I haven't done that so can't comment. The McAllister has been done in the opposite direction, descending into the hole from the vicinity of Isolation Peak thence upward to the vicinity of Tillies Towers bypassing the lower icefall. Nobody has ever had anything nice to say about this, nor, too my knowledge been masochistic enough to do it twice. A much better route, if you're heading North, is to drop into Marble Creek cirque next to Eldorado, then tootle on out northwards past Isolation, eventually crossing the Neve Galcier en route to a cold beer somewhere on the Skagit. All this stuff is pretty well documented elsewhere. Very cool country. Don't miss it.

Exceptional photos (of an exceptional area) It's difficult to look down the McAllister drainage & not be really glad that you didn't have to come up it, huh?

Haaaaang on Sloopy................. Negativity? Next I suppose I'll get kissed off as a troll. Oh well; let me try: Because I don't see it as a victory. Because I believe that not building the tunnel will 'save' the Icicle in approximately the same sense that not building another Chucky Cheese would 'save' Lynnwood. There's so much damage already.............. I guess one thing I find so frustrating about issues like this is that objections so overwhelmingly bear the NIMBY stamp. Few are willing to address the issue of whether such a thing should be built at all............what the benefits might be vs. the drawbacks.............most are merely certain of where they DON'T want it built. Which of the impacts you listed are not already present in spades with all the housing construction going on up there? Why is housing development in the Icicle not (apparently) subject to the same outrage that the tunnel faced? How many members of the "Icicle Alliance" have a house or property up in the canyon.........with, of course, a "Private Property, No Trespassing" sign? Not too long ago, people on this board & elsewhere put up a bunch of their money to purchase a chunk of private Icicle land (Sam Hill)to keep it open to public access. I'd like to commend that as a really positive step in the right direction. In a perfect world I think that would happen every time a For Sale sign goes up in the Icicle. As far as the gate, that's really not such bad idea. I wouldn't sweat the 'supreme ethical standards' too much, but it might be nice to keep the things with engines out of there..............imagine that.

So................ Now that the Icicle's all logged to rat-shit, and heavily salted with fancy houses and privatepropertykeepoutsigns, and fully regimented with legalities of paying to camp, and paying to park, and paying to hike, and fairly well overrun to boot, and...............well golly, in short, now that the Icicle's pretty well fucked up in all possible ways: Folks gonna come along and say it's been saved because they're not gonna drill a little bitty hole in the side! I guess I disagree.

I guess what I mean by revisit is to work at getting that ordinance repealed. It was a stupid law when it was passed. It's a stupid law now.

A group of us were regular visitors there around about 1970 or so. Young, hirsute, energetic, profane, and decidedly non-stealthy, we were a threat to the established order of things out there in Wedge-wood and basically got the same warm welcome that meth cooks would today. Hence the ordinance. We went bravely before the Seattle City Council to appeal and got absolutely nowhere. But maybe it's time to revisit the issue. There are/were some cool routes on that little thing.

Great photos. Pretty cool area; you should get some kind of hardcore maniac star for doing that approach and only staying one day!

That was Seattle City Councilman Wing Luke. Plane vanished early 60's and the wreck was not found for years.

I think the 'old' trail is still the route of choice: It's shorter & more direct, it goes right by the Falls, it has a lot more character and it's not overrun like the new one. Regarding the mines at the start one and all should beware the partially planked over winze not too far inside. It once tragically claimed a local dog & would be a really bad hole to fall into.

You are very much on the right track. It's not really brushy from there except a teeny bit. Much of it has a defined path, some to the left of the crest, some to the right around a little rock thumb, and sometimes right on the crest. Traverse and descend left across an open area to the low saddle of Anderson Creek before the last major bump. Assuming no unforseen problems you were about an hour and a half from the top.

Kinda right up there with endless snow slopes and scree chutes, and the approach to Midnight Rock and such, except for the semi trucks of course. Actually I rode to Washington Pass about a month ago from the east and was really pleasantly suprised at the relative lack of traffic. Coming back down I was able to ride the lane instead of the shoulder (nice because the wind was batting me around quite a bit) and not piss anybody off.

A couple of things may help: 1)On the traverse itself don't even think about being on the ridge crest or Index side until you are past the Perfect Place, and also until you have really no choice. I'm guessing you doped this out belatedly as did I once apon a time.........the notch I suspect you visited is one of the great boulder trundling sites in the universe but not otherwise on the way to anywhere. 2)There are a couple of shortcuts, one being a supposed not too brushy route to the head of Procter Creek (which I've never been able to find) and following the road past the Procter Creek washout to it's high point & thence traversing the obvious talus at the head of the basin. Prior to that road's washing out one could with two-wheel drive reach a point only about 4 hours from the summit. I'm betting that walking the road adds less than two hours. Both of these alternatives are shorter and eliminate the big elevation loss off of Persis. 3)Just before Anderson Creek pass where you face a loose & unpleasant descent right after the ball bearings do yourself a favor & go up a hundred feet or so, it's just a walk then. 4)I wouldn't recommend dscending the Lake Serene route if you have not been up it.

If that is your time up Persis figure about 4 more hours to Index. There will be water at the Perfect Place & a couple of other spots. There will be some snow on the route, mainly between the head of Anderson Creek & the summit. Fun trip.......enjoy

Down there in the fat old man grades I read in this thread that Classic Crack is 5.9 yet Angel Crack is 5.7. I find that really interesting..........