dlofgren

At the top of the "pass" from Moraine Park to the valley holding Mystic Lake, turn right onto the climber's trail and ascend the lateral moraine along the north side of the Carbon Glacier for awesome, up-close-and-personal views of the Willis Wall, Liberty Ridge and the rest of the entire north face of Rainier. Well worth it.

Harry Pi is an optimist. About five years ago AT THIS TIME OF YEAR I dropped waist-deep into a hole about 100 yards off the summit rim ON THE POPULAR DC ROUTE. Big surprise! Nuff said.

Necessary for what? Nothing like that is necessary to climb the DC. UNLESS you or your partner drop into a hole, or get into any other sort of trouble. Then yes, pickets are necessary. That's why you see climbers carrying them. However, most of those know how to use them. Seems to me if you don't have'em, you probably have yet to learn what to do with them, in which case you might as well not carry them. In which case, Adams is a safer alternative until you get the training and equipment. Then more power to you; the DC will be a great climb for you.

In his emphasis on PRACTICE in the snow, Jason is right on. There you learn little things like slipping your Bachmann down the rope as far as you can before weighting it so it doesn't bunch up tight against your knot and make your knot nearly impossible to untie! Not that that's ever happened to me... And you learn how long to leave the loop on the Bachmann so you CAN slip it down the rope. And why you should not tie directly into the rope because even a butterfly isn't that easy to untie after being loaded, especially if it's twenty degrees with a thirty mph wind blowing and you have to take your liner gloves off to untie it and then your fingers are useless for however long it takes to warm them again while your partner is still in the hole and by then you're so chilled you're drooling and have forgotten how to set up ANYTHING because you haven't PRACTICED! And that's real life.

Thanks for the great pics. Haven't been in there since 1970. Your shots are motivating me to make the trip back. Beautiful area. Thanks.

Andy Selters addresses this on pages 110-114 in his book, "Glacier Travel & Crevasse Rescue". Go up to Alta Vista in the spring and practice what he says with a partner, one throwing him/herself over the bank, the other stopping the fall, putting in an anchor, transferring the rope to the anchor, backing up the anchor, setting up a Z, etc. The key is to PRACTICE. My partners and I have found it's easiest to have the picket with a sling with two biners carried on the side of the pack, held by the compression straps, that can be reached over the shoulder, which can then be clipped to a Bachmann pre-tied to the rope, which can then be weighted (slowly/carefully), then backed up. The key is to PRACTICE. Each person needs to carry a minimum of TWO anchors and TWO pulleys and a Kiwi coil of enough length to form a decent Z. The key is to PRACTICE. Did I say that already? :-) Caveat: I've never had to pull my partner out of a real live crevasse (happy about that) so this ends up being my two cents worth. I also agree with Pete A that the partners should have a plan to give the person in the hole the opportunity to prussic out or to climb out if possible.

Good description of a very traumatic moment in your life. Glad you're ok. "While they were taking care of me, we saw many parties go by not roped up and several people go into up to their knees" Classic "it won't happen to me" idiocy. What else could go through the mind of a person walking by a situation like that and not immediately stopping to rope up? Any ideas?

Summertime at Muir; 20 degree bag in a bivy sack is just fine; much preferred to sooty water dripping off the ceiling in the hut. I'm thinking that Mike needs to get his ranger-boys & girls in there to scrub all that stuff off the ceiling. After all, that's what we pay them for, right? Service. With a smile. But Bill's right, if you're not going to climb, take a tent and luxuriate.

Doesn't the ink in a Sharpie adversely affect the rope?

Wow, those are penitentes alright. I've only been through it three times (all in July), and it was never like that. Amazing how it changes. I remember it being steep, though. Have fun.

Good for you, BreezyD. You are right in there with most of the rest of us: more turn-backs (not failures)than summits. Maybe it could be be called a failure if the journey wasn't so sweet. Hang in there, you'll get to the top.

Randy The section from the top of the chute to the top of Wapowety Cleaver (where the Kautz, Finger and WHW routes converge) is a living, moving glacier, full of holes waiting for you. The normal route moves from there onto the upper part of the Nisqually Glacier, which has some HUGE holes waiting for you. Don't unrope until you summit. Safety first. And if, as a two-person team, you haven't practiced the entire sequence of arrest/ anchor/ transfer/ Z-pulley/ extraction, don't travel on a glacier until you do. Safety first. MHO

My partner and I usually spend a day every spring practicing the entire procedure from stopping the fall, placing a picket, transferring the load to the anchor with a pre-tied Bachmann, constructing the Z-pulley, and reefing the "fallen" partner out of the "crevasse". We always place a backup anchor (second picket), but even when we've used only one, we never had it pull, whether placed vertically or horizontally, even though we have pulled really hard. We usually practice in April, in fairly unconsolidated snow. Alex - after experimenting, we found that carrying the picket on the side of our pack enabled us to reach back over our shoulder, pull the picket vertically up through the compression straps and place the anchor while still having the pack on. Also, I've placed a picket horizontally at the top of the snow walls in the parking lot at Paradise and taken friends "ice-climbing". Have never had one even quiver, let alone pull, even with people falling and being lowered. In fact, I've found it difficult to extract without digging. A major key to a solid deadman is the length of the leg of the "T" that's dug so the direct pull is not up but through the snow. Big however - I make no claim to be an expert on the subject; simply relating my experience. Dan

I agree completely. However, I know that rebuilding the upper culvert would take a big chunk of change. But I don't understand their mentality regarding some of the other options. They're not listening. At the public meetings they held re. the new management plan the vast majority of the participants urged them to do exactly that: do all they can to open up other areas to take the pressure off Paradise and Sunrise. Not new areas. But like open up the Mowich road earlier (the road was snow-free for at least two weeks before they opened it last year) and the West Side road. All they did was smile and steaksauce their heads and give some excuses for the WSR. Grrrr. Hey Mike - if you catch this thread - can you give us a name and number to contact to voice our desire regarding the Mowich Road, at least?

This whole thread focuses on BLAME. Personally, I'm sick and tired of blame being directed toward anyone American. Sure, we have made mistakes in international relations and foreign policy - both Democrats and Republicans are guilty, but our mistakes are NOT the reason for Islamic terrorist activity. When trying to levy blame for Islamic terrorism, why not let the Islamic terrorists speak for themselves? And every time they speak, it's in RELIGIOUS terms! Listen guys, this is a RELIGIOUS war! Islamic Jihad! The fatwahs from the mullahs don't condemn Democrats or Republicans, they condemn the HEATHEN. Bin Laden and his fellow thugs were very precise in outlining their reasons for 9-11: the HEATHEN Americans were/are DESECRATING the HOLY LAND of Islam (Saudi Arabia) by their very presence. Note the language of religion, not of politics or economics or any of the other terms the hand-wringing Bush-hating America-blamers use. How to win the War on Terror? Really tough call. I don't think anyone posting on this site, including myself, knows enough to speak with much authority. But it seems to me that short term, we need to: 1. toughen our defenses (as we have). 2. target the Islamic terrorist leaders for elimination. They will not be mollified by diplomacy, concessions or appeasement, only emboldened. Long term, we need to do all we can to change the environments that foster Islamic terrorism - stop the funding of the Islamic mullahs who foment hatred of the heathen, promote secular, democratic governments who will take it upon themselves to crank down on the Islamic religious thugs. Way too simplistic for many of you, I'm sure. Tough thing to do, at best. I do know that neither Democrats nor Republicans have any easy, clean, workable solutions. This war is messy and extremely complicated to fight. John Kerry won't do any better than George Bush. Back to my point - can we at least stop blaming America and America's leaders for the actions of demented Islamic creeps? Please? Thanks for hearing me out.

Full congratulations! Obviously a long-to-be-remembered trip for all of you. Fine line you walked weather-wise; good decisions made; summit; safe return.....not bad for an old codger!

swaterfall - any chance for a TR of your Sunset Ridge climb?

I get to recupe from some yayhoo stabbing me in my left knee this morning. Something about a torn meniscus, arthritis and a "loose body". If it wasn't for that, I'd be on Rainier, or rock, or something besides my Lazy Boy, that's for sure. Have fun, people. No envy here. None. Not a bit. Nope...

Wally, Sobo's post is really good. Realistic. You also asked about 2-man team rescue: 1. Read Andy's Selter's "Glacier Travel & Crevasse Rescue", starting at page 110. BTW, he suggests a prussic, you can also use a Bachmann; he suggests a fluke, I like a picket. Either way, it's a challenge, and practice is essential. 2. Griz is right also - practice and more practice will help, and will open your eyes to the limitations of a 2-person team and make you more careful. But it will also give you confidence in what you CAN do.

Bought mine the first of April; received it June 10. Hey Mike, how did you know it was my birthday? Thanks a bunch.

Stretch / Schuldt - It's a small sandstone cliff with bolted routes ranging from 5.easy to 5.hard. What time do you get off work/out of school on weekdays? I could meet you in Buckley and climb from 4-ish to dark some evening. Gotta make it this week or next; the sawbones will stab my left knee on the 18th. Email me at dlofgren@integrity.com if you want to climb there.

Thanks, top op. That's what I needed to know. I forgot to say that my last attempt to get there was last fall.

The last time I drove up the valley road past the school there was a new road/gate, and the gates to both the old and new roads were locked with signs saying "stay out". Does anyone know if climbing is still allowed? Plum Creek had a "don't ask/don't tell" policy. If there is new ownership, is it the same with the new owner?

Safest in what way? Solo, safe from crevasses - retrace your route up. If you value safety from crevasses over a "pure" solo climb, solo the route on a weekend, and ask a party at the top to allow you to tie in with them for the descent. There is no "safe" way to descend any of the glaciers of Rainier in June. Nasty surprises (like DPS above)can kill you, and most everyone who has spent much time on The Mountain has been surprised at least once.

If you travel solo across the Cowlitz to Ingraham Flats you really should be roped up. Especially if your skills are limited. If you want solitude based out of Muir, climb the ridgeline to the Beehive/start of the Ledges. You'll be high and alone without the risk of punching through.