high_on_rock

An injured arm would possibly explain why there was one glove left in the cave, and partially explain why at least one of the ice tools was left. It is my understanding that all of the gear was found in the cave where the body was not. Is that correct? Do we know yet what was found in the cave with the body?

The sheriff also implied that climbers would typically not be cutting the rope with a knife. In light of the popularity of “Touching the Void” and it’s “cutting the rope” implications, Just wanted to tell some of the non-climbers that there are often reasons to cut off pieces of the climbing rope, so not to read too much into that comment by the Sheriff. Climbers often cut pieces off the rope for anchors and such, or merely to make two shorter ropes out of a long one, so that cut rope may not mean much. E

Thanks for teh update JFMCTLAW, I am reading

Ice axes or ice tools. In that snow, ice tools would be pretty short and usless??

Come on folks, no one chose to die, all are there because they want to live. The next question is whether they will find one, two, or three in the snowcave within the next couple hours? Would they prefer hot chocolate or hot food? Gonna be a great story when they tell it! E

So perhaps we should change the country motto to, "Land of those forced into doing what is good for them, home of the risk adverse." Ban motorcycles, ban swimming without lifejackets (as they are starting to do in some rivers); ban alcohol; crack down on jaywalkers; ... I personally like independence, I feel that facing and managing risk adds to life, and want to live where I can determine the course of my life. I could climb with sat-phones, radios, an extra weeks worth of fuel, a warmer sleeping bag, ...; each only weighing an extra little bit; or I can take my chance and follow the "speed is life" concept and go light enough to survive the worst case scenario rather than be comfortable in such a situation. Short of some unknown injury, I assume that the climbers are probably a little uncomfortable right now but still alive and well. Having the beacon would not have got them rescued any sooner, as they were having to survive the worst case scenario first. Facing risk can be character building. I value your opinion that you would choose to take the extra electronic gadget, and I value those who choose otherwise. Freedom dictates that we support choices we would not make, and the only way I can be free is to enforce your right to be free. Peace, brotherhood, and Freedom!

Society has become completely risk adverse. Growing up, seat belt use was unheard of. They then became required for children, then became required for adults. We now have absolute requirements for how children are to be buckled, how they are to be belted, and which seat they are to ride in, and what that seat should be. Do you think it will stop here, or do you think this will continue until all children, then adults will have to wear helmets in cars? In many cities one will be ticketed for not wearing a helmet while riding a bicycle, or even roller-skating, would anyone have predicted this 20 years ago? “Land of the Free, Home of the Brave;” but don’t skate without a helmet or you will be punished! At some point the additional “safety” requirements become more of a bother than provide actual safety. Where that line is to be drawn is an argument not a fact, and each will have their own opinion. In mountaineering, one can always fill their pack with more and more safety equipment, but at some point the extra weight and reliance on that equipment detracts from the safety and purpose for being there. We each make the decision for ourselves based on experience, strengths, knowledge, and risk assessment. Please don’t force others to agree with your opinion, nor should they try to force you to do things their way. Independence and reliance on ones self is a key concept in mountaineering, let’s not take that away. “Land of the Free, Home of the Brave.” Eric

Folks, I have a good feeling that tomorrow is the day. There will be enough clearing that SAR is going to get up and find the lone climber; and the weather is going to clear enough that the other two are going to pop their heads out of the cave and be seen. Whether the two are still on the mountain or have blindly descended into a forest somewhere, tomorrow is going to be the day. My hat goes off to the SAR folks who, as volunteers, have risked their wellbeing for days. It is that type of giving attitude, that kind of volunteerism that makes the climbing community a group of beautiful people. Keep the good thoughts, tomorrow will be the day! Eric

I am having trouble leaving my tv and keyboard today just waiting on news. Last info I had was that rescuers were digging in near summit due to weather, any updates on that or on current weather? Any actual information as to depth of snowfall creating the avalanche conditions? Any word on the two climbers spotted on the north side this morning? Peace, hope, and brotherhood everyone.

Jon's question sounds reasonable, just seeking information. Is it the weather or rules keeping people from going higher. If it is the weather, sad; if it is rules then lets get some freelance climbers to climb.

News just reported that the one in the cave is from Texas

Uff da, perhaps this has already been answered but I did not want to read 8 pages of thread to find out, but is this show going to make the circuit so that we can all see it? Anyone know? E

I asked a darn similar question recently and received this advice: http://cascadeclimbers.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/612019/page/2#Post612019

I hear ya CBS, but based upon my pattern it will be another 30 years before I update again. So I need something to take me into about year 2036, so I wanted to put some research into the decision.

It would be my impression that what we saw was anger not racism. I think we saw a guy verbally punching at the members of the audience with the hardest verbal fist he knew. If you go nuts and punch some guy who deserves it, that doesn't make you a violent person. We all have our braking point, and he obviously hit his. To my knowledge there is no pattern of this behavior, it was just that he snapped. I am not a racist, but I also know the right names to inflict the worst pain on minorities. If I knew of words that would be that powerful when used against white people, I might someday use those in anger. Unless there is a pattern of the behavior, I think one needs to give him the benefit of the doubt. Just my thought.

Perhaps this should be in the newbee section, but I am looking for advice as to which ice tools to buy. I dabble at Ice, climbing maybe twice a year, but would like to hit the ice a little more this year. I am a cheap bastard, and have for years been playing with some antique Chouinards, but am tempted to spend some money this year. What would be a great, “affordable”, low maintenance pair of ice tools for a moderate climbing old fat guy? Or should I stick with my antiques?

Just store it in a coolish place out of the sunlight, away from chemicals and it will be fine. I have a perfect place if you would like me to store it for you. E

I will be down there from about thursday through sometime in the next week. I have a partner, but you can always join us. Look for a red miata with a black top at the campground, or let me know if you are interested and I will PM you my cell number. E

Here is a dirtbag thought, what about chunks of sheetrock? What is the significant difference between chalk and sheetrock dust? Any experts out there? E

A few years ago I was jobless and homeless, and spent the entire winter at RedRocks drawing unemployment ("on the state's climbing team"). Best winter/spring of my life. E

It is suggested that you shoulc only simul rap if both weigh about the same, which really does not matter. I often Simul rap with people near half my weight with no problem. Another trick is to put the knot on the lighter persons side of the anchor (or butterfly and biner around heavier persons rope) if you are worried that the friction is insufficient. I also always put the larger diameter rope through the rap anchors, which puts my fatter body on the thicker rope. I agree with the concept of leapfrogging and simulrapping as being darn fast and efficient, but take care of the beginners. E

I am still not getting it. If the knot was in a non-moving position then I believe you would be right. Since the knot is also moving along with the runners, is there any sawing? E

I don't get it yet. If the two are joined they will move as one, there should be no "sawing." What am I missing? E

What do I know. I learned through a club about ten years ago, then learned even more helping teach some of the basic skills the following couple years. I have since been out on my own for many years and do very little the same way that I learned from them, but it was still a great course to keep me alive while I learned better skills and adapted my own style and preferences. I spend a lot of time out climbing and always watch to see what others are doing. I often believe that I can tell the club climbers from the non-club just by watching their styles. I would say that the worst habits I have seen out at the crags are from people who were obviously not club trained. The only two real “assholes” I have encountered in the hills have both been guides with their clients. I have encountered numerous club people who seem to believe that there is only one right way to do things, but I understand that is merely a product of trying to teach a basic set of skills to a large group of people; and tolerate their limited vision of the many safe possibilities. Most of the club people are great people, with a jerk sprinkled in occasionally. Most non-club people are great people, with a jerk sprinkled in occasionally Seems like peace, tolerance, and brotherhood would get us a long way in the world.

I am scheduled to be in Red Rocks with a few people if you need some folks to climb with E