chris

Sorry... Edit: check your email!

Where's J. Healy?

Dude, don't tell me you don't have a fake ID. I won't believe you.

Anyone who can read the guidebooks knows something is up. Two recent examples for me were Boston Basin and Mt. Triumph. In the Select, the Forbidden South Face Glacier easily covers the bowl - this September we only had to cross 30' of ice to reach the left side of the chute. And the glacier in the SE aspect of Torment was originally mapped in the 1960's as covering the entire bowl from W-E, and perhaps 50% of the bowl South. Now its seperated into two lobes, has easily lost half of its mass, and the E lobe has turned into a permanent icefield. On Mt. Triumph, the Select guide says to simply walk across the glacier. But the glacier has retreated to much that its less work to simple walk the slabs underneath it. And the glacier underneath the North Aspect is GONE. Completely gone, just a few pieces of ice standing like beach icebergs. Another cc.commie mentioned to me that for this latitude a glacier needed to be at least 40% above the firn line to remain stable, and that less than one quarter of the glaciers in the Cascades meet that requirement (am I quoting you correctly?).

The only Idaho ice I know of is on the Wyoming border, just east of Driggs, in Teton Canyon. About a dozen flows, month and weather dependent. Some form in the fall only to be buried, some last all winter, and some form in the spring in the right conditions.

I think NPR is currently running on a 13% federal funding subsidy. If public funds were cut off I'm sure they'd have to take on a more mainstream approach to advertising, rather than the "support provided by blah blah" version of advertising lite they currently use. This is how NPR says its funded: You can read more about it here: http://www.npr.org/about/privatesupport.html

welcome home, GGK. Good on ya'

Careful there, Layton. I've just been informed that its very bad style to air your relationship on Cascade Climbers. In my SO's words, "If you weren't having maintenance problems before, you sure as hell are now."

For certain. We had beta from Mark Allen that a single 60m rope was sufficient. Because of some changes all four of us ended up climbing together as two two-man teams, so we were able to tie our ropes and do long 60m raps. But I watched for the mid-mark on the rope to make sure that I could come back with friends! Bryan, thanks for the hard work on Prime Rib - that routes is super-fun.

Just wait for MA to sit you down and puts "Rad" in the VHS...you'll be singing "Send me an angel" for the next 48 friggin hours!

In medical school they have a saying about the teaching/learning of various procedures: "watch one - do one - teach one" There is nothing better than teaching to make your own skills stronger. They are teaching basic skills after all, not hardcore advanced alpinism. Perhaps Maestro has a better idea. The instructors should be required to observe one Basic Climbing Course before teaching it. Gary, The common opinion on this thread is that the Mountaineers have unqualified instructors teaching students in the basic course. Its not the students responisbility to distinguish between qualified and unqualified instructors amongst an organization. Its the organization's responsibility. If you want to do something about it, there needs to be more requirements to teach the Basic Climbing Course than just having attended the Basic Climbing Course. If a year is too long, than don't use a year. Jesus, man, you asked for suggestions and I gave them. Here's a more concrete example: To teach the Basic Climbing Course, you need to have: 1. Passed the Basic Climbing Course no sooner than 6 months ago 2. 20 days climbing since the Basic Course - this averages to less than two weekends a month, and documentation will use an honor system for validity - believe us, it will be apparent who has padded their books! 3. Climbed at least three II routes or longer since the Basic Course 4. Lead at least 3 trad climbs of at least 5.6 since the Basic Course 5. At least two days of glacier travel since the Basic Course. Now, I don't know what someone who has finished the Basic Course is actually expected to be able to do. Just consider requiring SOMETHING like this... And watch what words you use - you don't FORBID someone, you simply have PREREQUISITES.

When I call it a guide bolt, I mean the bolt is there to guide the rope, not the climber. On some the lower angle pitches (like the first and the seventh, I think), the bolts keep the rope from being drug through loose rock and dirt since the pitches wander a little bit to the anchor. There's one of the crux's that I agree, you're actually more at risk of z-clipping than falling. But again, the presence of the higher bolt keeps the climber from heading for easier and looser terrain to the left. If you were to try to go left, you'd be raining loose death onto the head of your belayer. Ouch. I was told that this route was bolted with a new 5.9 and multi-pitch leader in mind. And I do recommend this route to anyone who is a solid 5.8 leader looking to push their standard on a multi-pitch climb. John, if Beecher didn't send you an electronic copy let me know, I have the topo scanned into a PDF. If Prime Rib is too tame for you hardmen and hardwomen, I recommend the Inspiration Route (at the first pullout). This was first climbed way back when, and is printed in the first Burdo guidebook. Its received enough traffic now that you can ignore his concerns about loose rock, bring about 14 draws, and leave the gear in the car. It's much more sparsely bolted, more sustained, and has an ass-kicking final "5.9+" pitch with some excitement. I stongly recommend it to anyone who feels like they're a solid 5.9/5.10- leader. You can rap off the top with a single 60m rope. Approach - park at the first pullout (aprox 3 miles form the store), with the Goat's Beard in view. A trail is cairned across the road. At the obvious fork, head right (going left leads to Sisyphus). The trail dissappears below a gully - cross the gully, climb up a 6' step to a landing, and head towards the dead snag. The first pitch starts on the other side of the snag, and a bolt is available to anchor your belayer.

Madras, Feathered Friends is a well known climbing store in the Puget Sound. No need to get your hair all ruffled. Feathered Friends is located near the corner of Yale and Stewart in downtown Seattle. I personally use Expedia maps to get driving directions to someplace new for me. Good luck.

Because the right is all about the love. Sure. That's what you lefties say, but I'd don't see any right-wingers posting polls here about who they "hate the most". Just because I'm not with the right doesn't mean I'm with the left.

Gary and CBS, if I understand the curriculum progression Intermediate students are expected to assist teaching a Beginner course within 5 years of attending the Beginning Course themselves, and that many do so at the first opportunity. REquire a minimum amount of time to pass after the Beginning Course, a minimum number of days climbing, and a minimum number of climbs at a certain length and of a certain difficulty. You can mitigate the lack of experience in the instructor corps by requiring it as a prerequisite. Just my $0.02...

Because the right is all about the love. Sure.

I've said it before, but I'll repeat it again. My biggest complaint about the Mountaineers, Mazamaz, WAC, BoeAlps, and similar clubs is that they teach cookie-cutter "recipe" problem solving skills. "If you find yourself in X situation, then do Y." Climbing is rarely so simplistic. That complexity was the draw for many of us when we started out. These clubs seem to churn out graduates who believe the know EXACTLY what should be done, and refuse to consider other options, possibilities, or alternatives. Many club instructors I've spoken with don't seem to teach that nuance, that there are other ways "to skin the cat," and that good judgement is based on experience which is determined by days in the field. And they don't pass it on to their students. And so their students march out of their courses with uncompromising opinions gained with no more logical an explanation than, "That's what I was taught to do in the Basic Climbing Course this summer." No course alone can teach judgement without adequate time spent practicing, succeeding, and sometimes making mistakes and failing. The goal is recognize and correct the small mistakes before they build into big mistakes that lead to unacceptable consequences. That's why NOLS courses last 30 bloody consecutive days. And we must make a distinction between clubs, outdoor education, and professional guide services. The consumer demands are different and the services provided are different. I think if we want to start a discussion about NOLS/Outward Bound, or AMGA/RMI/professional guiding, those should be sperated from the clubs. If we want to compare them, that should be a seperate thread as well.

Well said, Joseph. It seems that a lot of climbers over-engineer redundancy into systems where it isn't necessary. For many of them these are systems they were taught as beginners, and they've never questioned them.

The same ST discussion is taking place here: http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.html?topic_id=271445&msg=271974#msg271974

Another acces point is above Mirkwood and the viewpoint. A faint trail crosses scree slopes to access the glacier. There was some nice climbing to be had there in September.

I agree with you Matt - the top pitches of Dreamer are definetely worth climbing. I want to do a little more exploring on the Green Giant, including SS and that alternative northern descent that you told me about.

Yep, but I hear more stories about people bailing on Dreamer than rapping on SS. Thanks for the check-up, Mr. Cash.

Dreamer, Green Giant Buttress, Darrington So a couple of seasons ago I cut the tat and replaced it with chains and quicklinks up to the top of pitch 7. Can anyone tell me how they're holding up?

Dude, check your pm's

Steve, "technically excellent, morally repulsive is not a comment about this conversation, or this rescue. Its an automatic footnote that is added to the end of every one of Oly's posts. Relax.