scrambler

I'm not sure I believe in altruism (selflessness). Instead, I would opt to call the motivation, enlightened self-interest, meaning that your personal goals dovetail with the best interests of the community.

I agree with the general sentiments expressed although the primary message is, "Folks at home, don't criticize the war because you're dealing with faulty information. The media message is skewed to represent a situation out of control. We are seeing progress despite casualties. This is not a quagmire." Ok, point taken, we are not seeing the complete picture back here in the States. For my take, this Iraqi war may represent the shrewdest move ever by an administration if they can pull it off and aren’t thwarted by rival interests in the region and by domestic shakedowns. Seems the legislators and other government movers & shakers are on the same page when they call for more troops for the occupation force to keep this thing on track. Let's progress to the next thought. I support our troops and I ask, "How do we provide an atmosphere of 'welcome back' for them?" Some of the Reservists and Nat'l Guardsmen will not re-enlist because they were not given the straight facts regarding the length of deployment. Will they be able to make up for lost income or find a better paying job? So yes, I think we can do something for them by asking our leaders to be accountable for the domestic situation as well. I thought this following quote was interesting. It was uttered by Hermann Goering, Hitler's second in command after the German surrender of WWII. What does the 'common man' receive from this war? Higher gas prices? C'mon.

WTH. Here.

Nice, I've only been at the Tietons once but I definitely plan to go back. Here's an attached pic of a new route at the Oasis. Don't look at this picture if you want to onsight it. The easy part of the route starts in a lava tube, to a heel hook, and then on to a harder section, 5.11 something. I look like a chump on toprope but, what the hell, I'm not hardman enough to lead it off the bat.

Yeah, those are two big ones. Uhmm….I mean four big ones. Suk, I don’t have a weekend picture but I do have a pic of a small rattlesnake at Skaha in July. We had climbed at Morning Glory Wall (Assistor, 5.10c & Spro Dog, 5.10b); only the last one for me, sketch, on TR. The next morning we were headed to Claim-It-All Wall. I was in front and almost stepped on the snake. We warmed up by climbing routes from south to north including Piggy Monster, Homers’ Wake, Odyssey, and Mental Gymnastics (5.9-5.10a). While the two best climbers did Colours of the Wind and Press the Flesh (5.11a), I thrutched up a 5.9 trad route called Scrotum Fishing, a stem & layback finger crack. I have a pic of Press the Flesh and Scrotum Fishing is visible on the right side. If anyone is interested I can post this pic as an attachment (haven’t figured out yet if I can post multiple attachments in a single posting).

so the bush administration said that??? of course you cant give a name, but it doesnt really matter to you because of course you will blame bush anyway regardless... im not even going to waste my time responding to your childish name calling and ranting. oh, and BTW...that speech from the bush dedication ceremony was given by Bush Sr. not the current Pres Bush... nice try, homeslice OK. I will go real slow. Again. Reread what I wrote. Here, I'll parse it for you: Ok, are we on the same page, now? For starters, here's an exerpt from President George W. Bush's Sept. 2001 speech in an address to a Joint Session of Congress and the American People: Other examples of verbal strong-arm tactics will be provided as these are recovered. The last comment in my previous post points to this revelation: Headline--White House grapples with allegation. If CIA agent’s name was intentionally leaked, laws may have been broken. [ White House Probed Over Leak ] Really, I didn't intend to belittle but you didn't offer any objection based on reason, only your emphasis that the op-ed piece was stupid, bullshit and lies. Weak.

Hahahahaha. Read again, I said Bush administration. You really are articulate and persuasive, aren't you? Why don't you see what your collegues in the Republican Party are saying here: Conservatives Against Bush Maybe you should brush up on some of the issues they discuss, including: Bush’s fiscal irresponsibility The Patriot Act The Ashcroftonian assault on liberty Don't even presume to categorize me with your sophomoric view of the world. Reread the op-ed and think again. Here's something you might find ironic: --exerpts of remarks by President George H.W. Bush during the dedication ceremony for the George Bush Center for Intelligence, April 26, 1999 Here's a reliable source for ya: CIA Headquarters Have you read the news lately or does this go over your head?

Here's some humor in an otherwise sterile political thread... The Treasury Department has announced the production of new currency bills to assist the wealthy to stimulate the anemic economy. The newfound cash resulting from instituted tax cuts to the wealthy will be redistributed to the stock market where companies are expected to see record profits due to a jobless economic recovery. We're heading into an unprecendented era of prosperity, another Great Gatsby era! Hang on to your hats, folks!

Interesting how misunderstandings are perpetuated. In Shannon's theory of communication, redundancy is used in human communication to ensure success of transmission despite distortion and omission, in other words, redundancy improves our ability to recognize messages reliably. Redundancy of a message is also used to shape thought. Consider the word, patriot. 'Patriot' is a hot button word propagated by the Bush administration to indicate someone who supports the administration in their efforts to reshape the world in their image. Anyone dissenting is considered unpatriotic. Their use of the word evokes the connotation that patriot refers to someone who is essentially conservative, believes in a mythical something called the American Way (which incidently is represented by the interests of the current administration, the official 'party' line), and by unquestioning obedience to authority figures. An op-ed piece in the Kansas City Star (the heartland, mind you, not the liberal east or west coasts), discusses the meaning of a patriot in an article titled: Patriotism swollen by fear obscures word's true meaning, see below for link. The article goes on to state the true meaning of patriot is closely akin to the Latin, civis bonus, which translated means 'good citizen'. The editor states that, "A good citizen refers to someone active in the republic." He continues, The op-ed piece is short and ends with an infamous quote by Hermann Goering in 1946 during the Nuremberg Trials. The op-ed piece is definitely worth reading and, imagine, these ideas being produced from the same state as the one John Ashcroft calls home. Kansas City Star op-ed

First, Incubus' avatar image-- Some of you have to be familiar with the art of Ed Roth or 'Big Daddy Roth'. His most recognized image was Rat Fink. I was struck by the resemblance of the avatar image to similar artwork by Roth, primarily the gaping mouth and the leering eyes. I almost expect the avatar image seated on a caricatured muscle car, you know, oversized blower and gear shifter, etc. Captured a fun time. A friend of mine who I used to work with has a muscle car. He joined one of those car clubs. Said it's full of old guys with old cars. All of the young guys have 'ricers', souped up Hondas and the like, with computer enhanced performance. Quite a gulf between the old performance cars and the newer cars. Anyway, there was talk to bring in new blood into the club by welcoming the kids. Kind of like the rift between Sportos and Trads Climbers, ya think? Second, Wesley Willis-- I'm a month behind in this news but I did a search here and I didn't find it in Spray. Alternative Tentacles recording artist, Wesley Willis died of leukemia last month. Willis, who was diagnosed with chronic paranoid schizophrenia, was called the Mozart of the 20th Century. Some of you may remember his songs: Rock n Roll McDonalds, I Whupped Batman's Ass, Suck a Cheetah's Dick, and Chronic Schizophrenia. Note the dark spot on his forehead. Willis always greeted people, not with a hello and handshake, but with a headbutt! For more info on Willis, see here:Boing Boing: A Directory of Wonderful Things )

Fleblebleb = clown-bully

Why such a visceral response? Man, you use a lot of loaded words. Anyway, I disagree with ya on the reason for the 'Republican Revolution' of '94. I believe that the Democratic Party fell victim to their own success. The Democrats experienced approximately 45 years of majority rule following WWII. Here, from Machiavelli's own mouth: "Not even a victorious faction ever remained united, except so long as the opposing faction was vigorous. But when a beaten faction was destroyed, since the party in power no longer felt any fear that could restrict it and had no law of its own to check it, the victor became divided."-- Machiavelli, History of Florence (1525). So, what I'm saying is that the Democratic Party lost its focus and that partially underlies the reason for their populist defeat in the legislative branch. Of course, I could just be blowing this out my ass. I'm no political scientist.

My bad, fellas. Thanks for the cold water in the face, RobBob. There's an informative article at the following link which scratches the surface of the legal understanding surrounding internet linking and such: (http://abcnews.go.com/sections/business/DailyNews/links020513.html) I'm no lawyer. This stuff is beyond me. I just got caught up in the anarchaic atmosphere that permeates this place and climbers in general. I saw MattP's post concerning the voluntary nature of the moderator's role. Please accept my apologies to you for causing more work on your part. BTW, the link for the photo above is: (http://a799.g.akamai.net/3/799/388/48b9a3df55daa4/www.msnbc.com/news/2024813.jpg) The humor of the photo just appeared out of thin air like the photo was shot to invoke a particular response.

probably more like it that nowadays it's much more difficult to portray war as a glorious affair. when i think of ww1, this kind of event (if event it was) is not what comes to mind. You totally missed the point, JB. When I say 'them' am I referring to the people or to the stories?

In an apparent policy shift regarding the occupation of Iraq, Secretary of State Colin Powell indicates that we, the United States, have set a six-month deadline for Iraqi leaders to produce a new constitution for their country. Following this action, it is proposed that the authority of the governing leadership will be transferred directly to the Iraqis. And, it ended happily ever after... Pictured below is Colin Powell indicating the International Symbol of Puppeteers.

I don't care to comment on the political parallels or lack thereof between McClellan and Clark but I see from Beckey's CAG that McClellan Ridge, McClellan Peak, and McClellan Butte are all named for Capt. George McClellan. According to Beckey, McClellan travelled through the Naches Pass and Yakima Pass areas in 1853 in search of a better railroad route.

Nice!

Right, Snoboy. What's there to worry about? Hahahaha. I'm just being funny. We don't have to worry about any zeroday viruses either. All this talk about guns and fear and stuff in the other threads has me all paranoid. Hahahaha... Besides why would anyone care about my harddrive? What're they gonna do, use it to launch a distributed attack or something? Hahahaha...

I know, Timm@y. I've seen a couple of these popup things before and the loss of control is always a bit unnerving. It's almost frightening to learn of the many harmless vulnerabilities that are waiting to be turned into something more malicious by people who modify these exploits and viruses into powerful tools. I've heard that even pictures can hide code. I suppose for now, the best that we can do is to use and maintain a good anti-virus program and firewall. There is some freeware out there for firewalls and anti-virus. I hear that these have weaknesses that can be exploited but these are better than using none at all.

This website (http://www.pivx.com/larholm/unpatched/) indicates that 31 vulnerabilities continue to exist in Microsoft Internet Explorer as of Sept. 11, 2003. These vulnerabilities include: Media bar ressource injection file-protocol proxy NavigateAndFind protocol history window.open search injection NavigateAndFind file proxy Timed history injection history.back method caching Click hijacking Re-evaluating HTML elavation ADODB.Stream local file writing Notepad popups protocol control chars What Timmay provided us is a perfect example of social engineering which essentially relies on your trust. You trust Timmay not to do any thing malicious so you click the link. Once you link to the malicious website, script is executed. This can also happen with email exploits. Luckily, this was only a joke but there's black hats out there that make the script kiddies like idiots. Script kiddies can be harmful too because their antics can cause bad things to happen, loss of data, erase files, etc. Black hats are usually after specific types of information e.g., credit card numbers, passwords, and can install keyloggers and other programs that do bad things. Be careful boys and girls. There are bad people out there. Especially don't download and execute a program from someone you don't know. You could end up losing control of your own computer. You can visit computer security sites that will probe for vulnerabilities in your system at: http://www.dslreports.com http://www.trojanscan.com/trojanscan/ http://www.trojanscan.com/security/ (check email security http://www.pcflank.com More info is available at: Information at http://www.cert.org http://www.securityfocus.com/ http://www.securitynewsportal.com/index.shtml

Truth as certainty. Otherwise, it's as difficult to define as God. When we say, truth, we are really only talking about the label, not the actual thing. We can't really grasp the thing in its entirety. So death as certainty. As a phenomenon in time. We know that other people die and one day I too will die. I'm talking about physical death, not getting into whether there is a spirit or soul, metaphysics. I don't know what's going to happen in the next moment but I can reasonably presume that based on the pattern of previous experience that the sun will eventually set and night will prevail. And so on until morning. Death or decay also as a constant, as entrophy. We have things such as the gravitational constant, speed of light. We can't really conceive of violating these constants. There're (as far as we know) universal physical laws. Maybe this constant will exist through time unless time begins to go backwards. Impossible? Or maybe I'm just talking out my ass and this is complete bullshit! Here's some William Blake for ya to ponder: "From the depths of dark solitude. From The eternal abode in my holiness, Hidden set apart in my stern counsels Reserv'd for the days of futurity, I have sought for a joy without pain, For a solid without fluctuation Why will you die O Eternals? Why live in unquenchable burnings?" The Book of Urizen, Chap. II, 4 (1794) "Coldness, darkness, obstruction, a Solid Without fluctuation, hard as adamant Black as marble of Egypt; impenetrable Bound in the fierce raging Immortal. And the seperated fires froze in A vast solid without fluctuation, Bound in his expanding clear senses" The Book of Los, Chap. I, 10 (1795)

What? I have no absolute truths, as truth is an invention of the human minds, and is hence open to interpretation. Sphinx, that's a crock of shit. Doublespeak How so? What's an absolute truth? Physical death is an absolute truth.

Society, the larger organism, has rules meant to preserve its cohesion. Take, for instance, the Ten Commandments. I take these commandments to exist in a tribal sense. By that I mean these rules apply to those in your social group. "Thou shall not kill." Thou shall not kill someone within one's social group. It's acceptable to kill someone outside of one's social group in order to preserve the larger organism. The same applies to the rest of the "Thou shalt nots." Effectively, when someone breaks a commandment, he casts himself out of the social group. Big questions...

i largely agree with you. the debate here is over a subtle point. something i see as an absolute and separate from religious morals. i see this as wrong regardless of religion, history, culture etc. killing someone is wrong. i've drawn the line there. i have no qualms with the woman being punished if she's violated their law. but taking the life of another human who isn't threatening yours is wrong! we all put up with plenty of imposition of other's morals each day. i don't see this in the same category. Here's a question for ya, Minx. Assume you had ESP (just assume). Now assume also that you meet someone who you intuit will be the next Stalin, Hitler, John Wayne Gacy. Does that justify your action in killing that person? I mean, you know you're saving other peoples' lives in the process. It's the lessor of two evils. This doesn't exactly apply in this case. But, is the death of one person worth preserving the social fabric of a nation (as the inhabitants see it)?