minx

Wow, that's pretty bitter and uncalled for statement! Have a good life. bronco, my apologies for aiming my venom directly at you but this is an issue i feel strongly about. i can see no rationale for your position. i am not bitter and the statement certainly wasn't uncalled for. you raised the specter of the abortion issue. i called you out on it.

Which is total fucking bullshit, man. Because it is the men who get fucked into paying that bitch for the next 18 years. greg stfu up you bitter prick. the reality is that it takes two to make a baby ... so whatever. you knock some chick up and you're opposed to abortion. you raise the kid and make her pay. my problem with bronco's argument is not based on the societal aspects of parenting, responsibility, or legality. it's simply biology. when is a life a life. i don't by the argument it's at conception. if you want to go that far you better be very careful not to kill an earthworm, an amoeba, plankton, bacteria, etc or your going to burn in hell

It is the middle of five routes on We Did Rock. It used to appear as 5.8 in an earlier guidebook, but somehow got upgraded. The other four routes are definitely harder, especially Blockhead on the far right, which I would give a 5.9+ or a 5.10a- if such a thing existed. Oh! I mixed up absolutely nothing with Blockhead... yeah - Blockhead is a solid 5.9 (for one sequence of moves) Absolutely nothing is like 5.8 (at the most). you guys are so lame. absolutely nothing was my first 5.9 sport lead. please let me think it was 5.9 (i gave it 5.8)

Hey ian, in case you missed the newsflash the other guys started it hey jja, last time i checked there was no connection established between Iraq and the events of 9/11

1) ann coulter is a pretty hot republican 3)Shrub clearly has a religious agenda. He doesn't hide it, doesn't even try and pretend it's not guiding his decisions. this terrifies me. i think that it precludes him from making rational decisions in many situations. 4)if i recall correctly this country was founded by people trying to avoid religious persecution. this may not exactly be separation of church and state but they sure didn't want their lives run by a government influenced by a religion.

that probably would've driven me to say something. i would've been offended by having it inflicted on me to start the day. i must say the group was really polite while they were climbing. i appreciate that at least.

Trask?

any place w/o people at sunrise. galloping through wheat fields in e. wa.

i don't know about this mountaineers class or the boealps either. however, it seems like communication can solve a lot of problems. i get annoyed when i start climbing somewhere and a group comes along and takes over the area. h/e, as the group i encountered this w/e demonstrated, if you ask politely they'll usually find a way to accomodate you. the part i hate is that you have to deal w/that for every route in the area you want to climb. a hassle so i usually move on. the reality though is that if you want to climb their most groups are accomodating. if they're not then they suck and deserve a good tongue lashing so in short, quit whining, go climbing, and deal w/whatever you encounter.

Who says? If they don't like it, they can leave. Fuck 'em. Just because they belong to some organized cult of worship doesn't mean I should have to watch my language. It's their problem, not mine. that's pretty much the way i feel about it. i didn't know they were a church group at the time i was swearing a bluestreak. just wondering if perhaps i was out of line for swearing at all. i don't think so. as far as the kid thing go. muffy has it right on. he knows i don't go to bed at 8 and he knows he's not allowed to have a beer. as far as gripped earlier reference to smoking crack...well try "never" as being the right time. (although i do appreciate your diplomacy in your later post)

well unless those are your personal initials or you have a really masochistic side, i promise it won't be a pleasant experience. i made one cry once. i'm not sure if he was crying for lost soul, i hurt his feewings or what. i just know that it's not a good idea to knock on the door of college girl's apartment that early on a saturday morning. How do you know?

"Do as I say, not as I do." ~ Parents hey i think this is an important part of parenting. kids need to learn that there is a time and place when things are appropriate. it is not time for my 9 yr old to be swearing. i 'spose that saying something about christ on fire wasn't the most polite thing i could've said but hey i didn't know they had their bibles handy. let me make it clear that these guys were not being offensive to me in anyway. they weren't preaching or i wouldn't even be thinking twice about it. let just say you don't want to the JW that knocks on my door and wants to share.

iaxx is being mean to me hey it was a hard route...for me. yeah... i do suck. damn i wish i didn't but i'm pretty sure i'd still swear anyway.

frankly, i think i'd pay good money to see some of the kids that were there walk around their houses and their parents saying that. hey my kid was sitting right there. he knows there are some words that are OK for adults but not for kids. i used every single one of the "bad" words in several unique combos. i didn't really consider it at the time but maybe i should be more polite at the crag? ok maybe not.

FF's free soloing post made me think of this We were at vantage on sunday. Surprisingly we found ourselves pretty much alone on a wall. After a while a large group shows up. Despite the fact they've pretty much taken over the area, they're pretty polite about it so i'm not much upset with it. i head up the next route which is pumpy and tough for me. i'm cursing up a storm as i'm prone to doing even with my kiddo hanging out w/us. later, i realize the large group is a church group. i feel a LITTLE badly for inflicting them w/my irreverant tongue. so the question is, how considerate are you of those climbing near you? was it completely awful of me not to curb myself or consider that others might be there? my general thought is "fuck 'em" but FF's post got me to thinking. i never have cared if someone soloed something in around me but obviously this bothered FF.

i want a window

i'm bored with spray. i know longer have any desire to engage in senseless political debates, contribute to the general debauchery, participate in silly threads. i need drugs or something

there are 2 Es in steaksauce

how about some steaksauce to go w/that?

wait...disregard my last response. i was distracted. your dusk mask should match your rope and/or spandex. i recommend a pleated dusk mask for it's slimming effect seriously, i'm OW on this one. i sort of like the ritual part of it. that moment when you can pause and think before the next moves.

OK, but my chalkbag is seafoam green and my shoes are prussian blue, what colour should my dust mask be? it's not the colour of the dust mask that matters, it's the size of the dust mask...

i'll second playground point area. everything from some easy 5.4 slab to a really fun 5.8+ Most of it is eas to TR. check the new guide. We had a great afternoon there a few weeks back.

just a point way back to the earlier portion of this thread. waldorf schools are great...if you can actually find one that follows the theory and implements. a lot them turn out to be the same as every other private school out there. people learn differently. this is well known fact. some people learn better by listening, others learn better by seeing, others by doing. i can listen to a lecture and get nothing.if the prof writes the material down or gives me a hand out then i do much better. i do even better if i read the material and take notes or have an experiment to do. activities in school like shop and art are valuable skills. i'm horrified by how little gym and music my son gets at school. it's a different type of talent to excel in these areas. experential learning can apply to all subjects. these type of classes foster less academic skills but important skills none the less. amazing how many problem skills and deductive reasoning exercises can be had in a shop class or home ec. all of that said there is a difference between academic talent and other more practical talents. some people have both some people have neither. experientially learning my ass. just figure out how you can learn the skill. the experientially learning technique for reading is reading. you learn to read by doing it. the experiential technique for math is doing math problems.

i think it's great that people push the limits of the sport. if that's what they enjoy about it, that's what they should do. i suspect that i shall always be a moderate climber though. my aspirations don't lead me to goals of leading anything harder than 5.10+ if it happens it happens, it probably won't though b/c i think there are so many things to climb at the crags and alpine at that level and below. things much harder than that involve risks that i'm not sure i can justify as a parent. (ok-maybe some sport routes w/clean falls are harder than that and not too risky)

matt you make an excellent point.... h/e i think the major difference is the emphasis the 2 sports place on awareness of environmental impact. i know very few climbers who don't respect erosion control boundaries at crags, closures for raptor nesting, staying on maintained trails when possible, carpooling to the destination, trail maintenance activities etc. that's not to say there aren't some that don't pay attention to these things but there's an emphasis on good environmental behaviour. i don't see the same sort of thing from the snowmobile group. just an observation but it's one i've made repeatedly.