billcoe

Probably depends on the dog. I had a dog that used to go everywhere with me. Xcountry sking and climbing. Best route she ever climbed was Wyeast on Hood. The animal was an animal, she could claw up near vertical snow. Next dog I had was a pussy, (big Irish Wolfhound) and it would have been dumb to get her out on the snow other than short hhikes or hanging out in the Mazama lodge kind of thing. Great dog, but alas............... Best thing is to see what your animal can and want to do. Peter GAyeswqua had a dog that climbed Hood more than most people. He always took it out, they'll just trail behind while you break trail. My dogs name was not Butch.

Blake: I highly recommend the Mazamas. Great people and lots of knowledge there. I helped teach (I forget what they are called? Co-ordintors?) The Mazamas Advanced Program for 2 years about 1983 and 4 or so. Awesome. But, I hear the basic program is slow and boring. Still, learning the basics is real important, belaying may be the most important thing I think. I've been climbing for over 30 years. Seems to me, that people either go slow and have great climbing mentors and partners, or they have a near tradjic accidents, sometimes even fatal. Get a bunch of climbers around a campfire, smoke a dubbie or 2 and drink a brew, and the stories start coming out. It's always amazing how many of us (myself included) have this scary shit happen to us when we first start out. If it was me, and I had to do over again, I'd go through the mazamas, read every book I could find, and still climb with very experienced folks. Thats my opinion. Also, look around and check it out, PSU use to have a great great outdoor program (I ran it for 2 years, last I checked it was still going on, 4th floor of Smith Hall), and Clacakamas CC has a solid climbing class. In fact, the CCC class thing may be the best option for starting out rock Climbing. Ujohn, one of my current climber parners went through that one and he's solid. That would not help the desire to learn about the mountains however. Mazamas. Yup. You are definately starting out the right way by asking the question. Luck to you, hope I helped: Bill

Sorry: I need to type slower as I even confuse myself, and now I can't edit the post. 1st: from the P2 bolts on YW, you go straight up @30-40 feet where can go straight, or swerve to the right. You went straight, should have swerved to the r. in order to stay on route. So you were off route early in the pitch. BUT Lost Variation crosses YW higher up too, so high up on that pitch, when you were looking up the steep slab with the obvious pins in it, standing on a comfortable grassy little ledge, you had gotten back on route. You should have turned hard left and headed west, but you missed the turn. see? You missed it twice. Tim or anybody will tell you this too, P4 on YW is an awesome pitch, challenging all the way, fair protection-enough, but not too much of it. You should definately go back again. If it's wet, I'd pass on it except P1 is still OK, I've done it wet and it's fine, as is Rythem Method/Raindance, the bolted 5.7/8 face @ 30 feet around the corner to the North. You should ask Wayne his personal favs, he's been all over this rock big time. Not to insult anyone, but how is it everyone in Oregon thinks Beacon is in Oregon? I've checked the map several times, it's definatly in Wa. - This is in response to this being posted in "Oregon Cascades" section. Regards: Bill

I know a little aboout Beacon. Guessing here, other than sounding like classic Beacon: it may have been the "Lost variation" on SE Corner (5.8). (You probably just did the 4th or 5th ascent- just kidding, but it's rarely climbed anymore.) See a manky rusty 1/4 Rawl bolt up there somewhere? Just re-read your post, now I'm unsure really. Sketchfest describes the 2nd pitch accuratly on YW. It is very different than your description. The small book just to the r of the 1st pitch RAP ANCHORS (again, the actual end of P1 is a single bolt 15 feet up and l of the 2 bolt rap station) of YW goes up slightly right above the rap anchors(easy5.5) and steps left (@5.10B) @ 40' up to easy climbing up a ramp leading slightly left which ends at the the 2 bolt 2nd pitch anchors. It makes YW the very best climb out at Beacon IMO. It is an awesome F*en route and pitch. I named that the "Old Fart variation" to the Young Warriors route after Bob McMahon, Dave English and I did it (my lead) but someone chopped our bolts. (Bob is 55, I'm 48 and Dave is 41 years old now). If you were at the Rap anchors (again, the correct end of the first pitch is 15 feet left of the rap anchors on a little ledge with the bolt low, then you pro the crack) and went Left then up the dihedral rigth above the single bolt whicfh marks the real end of the 1st pitch thats @5.10C pretty much straight up but still ends at the 2 bolt 2nd pitch anchors. The 10C goes straight up from the anchor, not right as you describe. The "thin open book" is probably one of those, but sounds like the old fart variation. The variation to SE corner crosses young warriors after the 3rd pitch, and is to the Right of Young Warriors from there continuing higher up. Your description makes it sound harder than 5.8 unless it was wet. It goes up the steep slab where YW cuts left to the 3rd anchors, the pins in the shitty little alcove. None of the 2nd pitches you described (Old fart, 10C, or the real YW going hard left to the butthole crack) are 150" though, not even close. If you were where Tim said you were- you were real close to the 3rd pitch anchors, (which looks different than your description), I think that is in fact the SE Corner-Lost variation, goes straight up instead of hard left like Crackman says. Bill hmmmmmm could be-or not Somebody will now show up flaming me for some reason or another. Lets see. Probably better to not talk about climbing at all, but yammer inane triva and meaningless bullshit like many on this site. Sigh... sorry to bring it back to climbing, but sounded like fun anyway, eh Michael? dohhhh: just showed up to flame myself. re-re-read your post. 1st to, you mean 2 TWO. Dohhh. Yeah, Lost Variation, you should go to the diheadral which cuts slightly R @30-40 feet up to be on YW. You missed P2 of YW 2 times. You missed the YW diheadral easing right, then high up should have headed left just like time says. Pretty sure. There are 3 variations off the young warriors 1st belay though. Like Emily Lattila says: nevermind. Jeeeesse.

Best rockclimbing site is this one, hands down: http://www.rockclimbing.com So the answer to your question is Z: none of the above.... since http://www.rockclimbing.com isn't there. See you: Bill

Caveman: I know the feeling of wishing I had it on film. About 20 years ago or so, I had hiked up to the top of Barrett spur (what ? 9000 feet elev or therabouts?) and was sitting staring at the north side of Mt Hood, just hangin out by myself for most of the day, no camera either. There was an ice cliff of I guestimate several hundred feet high which collapsed off of the lower part of Coe icefall. All I can say was damn impressive. It was like somebody had pulled the bottom can of peas out of the supermarket display. I remember thinking that it most certainly would have killed anybody unfortunate enough to be caught walking across the relatively flat ice below the cliff, there were huge (much bigger than a VW bus size) blocks that collapsed and then swept down quite some distance. The roaring, smacking and cracking noise was something to behold. Well, I guess its time for some jackass to show up and hijack the thread with flames now. I'm already sorry I posted this. I hope somebody shows up with some interesting video though.

Wow: Alan K is older than me. Must be 50 plus right now. It should give all us old gumbys a contact hope and pride. Good job Alan! B

Winter: first of all, I didn't say they WERE "starting rumors" I said I WONDERED if they were starting rumors. " It is different. If you go to their site, in the first sentence, they say: "We are very excited about the rediscovery of the Canada lynx (Lynx canadensis) in the Oregon Cascades." The last sentance is "Based on new information that lynx are present in the Oregon Cascades" The jillion words between are all about the"action" they feel which need to be taken now blah blah blah blah blah blah. I didn't see any actual evidence in between the first and last sentence. I have noticed previously, that in science, where actual facts are presented, there is ALWAYS citation of studies and research, perhaps even pictures, like with bigfoot. On the ONRC site there is nothing which supports the first line and last line I just referenced. It's apparently just Hyperbole. In between those sentences is just what needs to happen now, the actions which MUST follw based on the first sentence: like "Existing Decisions Must be Withdrawn" (and a paragraph follows on actions which need to be done), "We urge the region to undertake a systematic review" (and a paragraph follows on actions which need to be done), "As part of its systematic review of projects the Forest Service may need..." (and a paragraph follows on actions which need to be done), "NEPA Requirements Have Not Been Met." (and of course a paragraph follows on actions which need to be done), "ESA (Endangered Species Act) Conferencing Has Not Been Completed" (and a paragraph follows on actions which need to be done), "Sensitive Species Requirements Have Not Been Met." (and a paragraph follows on actions which need to be done), "Sensitive species status triggers other requirements as well," (and a paragraph follows on actions which need to be done), "Forest Service Manual 2670.5 requires that new occurrences of sensitive species will be evaluated" (could you even imagine a paragraph following on actions which need to be done put in here?) "Northwest Forest Plan Requirements For The Lynx Have Not Been Met" (and another paragraph follows on actions which need to be done) You get that point? Not a web site to reference an actual fact. Not a name of a person who saw a lynx once. Not even the name of a person who knew a person who heard of a person who was in a bar and overhead.....not even the name or an instance of a person who may have seen one on TV.............see? So, to reiterate, I'm not starting rumors. I wasn't showing up here to attact the ONRC, my brother is a member, he walks the walk and I have respect for a lot of what they do and believe going back to RARE 2 and Hatfield. I was just wondering where the facts are with my few words "I am wondering". You have forced me to expand them, certainly more than I would have thought or wanted to do when I showed up here wondering if anyone had seen any Lynx in the Cascades. Seems like if the ONRC had any facts they would have presented them, I can't think of any reason why they wouldn't bring the actual evidence forward. Perhaps you can enlighten us on what that reason must be. Or perhaps you can find some facts on the site, perhaps even just 1, as I more than likely I must have missed that 1 fact. However, be aware that you have also not presented any facts. There are a lot of words on the ONRC site there. Lots. And they all relate to what we should do, HAVE to do: now that (re-read first line which appears to be all of the current facts anybody has presented.) I showed up and asked the question just curious as to any FACTS (re-read my first post). You show up and personally attack me. ("BTW, Bill Coe those accusations about ONRC are complete bull shit. Now whose starting rumors. Are you on the pay role for the timber companies?") I'm very surprised you or anybody feel it was BS to even allude to the lack of evidence presented, and somehow asking if anybody who might have seen a Lynx makes me a what? A FS shill. Dude, you really don't know me. Now do you want to talk Wolverines? I don't - you make me wish I hadn't posted at all. There was some BS here alright. But it didn't come from me. It was just a big waste of angry time, nothing was created, nothing was solved, nothing was learned, no facts were shared. Waste of time and bandwith. Greg: get real dude, they're magnificent animals, it's probably against the law to even say what you just said about shooting them so I'm gonna ignore it. fejas - thanks for sharing, that must have really been something. Dru: I think Iain has that one figgured out. B

Hi Wayne: I'll be there, how much is the door $$? B

Not to flame your methodology, and it's nice to see this bolt thing FINALLY addressed here, but doesn't "None of the above" and/or also ALL of the above" normally finish up such a list? B

Beck: Greg answered for me, except for the benefitting Beck part. Greg, right on the money dude.

Now don't go getting crazy dude: I'm just pulling out some facts. I don't work for the FS, in fact I'd rather see them downsized to the point where they have to leave me the F***K alone. As far as accusations, don't know what you're talking about..... you mean this from the ONRC site? http://www.onrc.org/programs/wforest/lynxletter.html which reads in part... "We are very excited about the rediscovery of the Canada lynx (Lynx canadensis) in the Oregon Cascades. We are writing to urge you to take immediate active steps to incorporate this new information into your management of federal forest lands....yada yada etc etc. So, I don't know if you can read the writing on the wall here.... can you spell "snail darter" how about " Klamath chubb". Few things in the US are as predictable as citizens belief that all things big and furry should be protected, and I agree with that sediment too. No need getting all cranky there, finsh yer beer and relax. Now have another one before you start calling me a fuckhead or something severe: I'll buy this round.. Regards: Bill (#1 FH 2 months running)

Spew: I'd love to hear about it. 23 pitches? Are you just f*ing around with these guys or are you serious? I can't tell from the inflection. PM me or post it on a less abusive site: like this one http://www.rockclimbing.com/ 23 pitches of clipping bolts and no gear sounds like heaven to me, and I love to trad climb, so the rest of you can keep those virulent anti-sport climber comments tucked away for later use. I saw the same thing you said essentially posted by Pete, that he didn't do a TR as he didn't want to get trashed for no reason. Seems like the opposite of what this site should be. Less yelling and name calling: more info. I'd love to hear about it or post it on RC.com, link above. Bill

Helllllooooooo Mr. Jones!!!! 8 weeks off? Man...as you've been all over, you would probably know more than the rest of us how to answer the question, Mexico would be nice this time of year, cheaper to get ot than Europe, Potero Chico would more than likely have somebody there you could hook up with too. Just so you know though: Europe may not be out of the question, I got a $258 plane fare into Paris last Jan. Seemed dirt cheap!! Wow: I want to be wayne...... 8 weeks climbing... nice.

Spew: are you just saying that to make a point or are you serious? I'd love to hear more. Perhaps you could take it over to this site: http://www.rockclimbing.com/ For some reason, folks are a lot more civil there. I saw Pete post the same thing you mention, IE, he doesn't want to post a TR as people just flame and spray on it. Hardly seems what a site like this should be about. Just yelling, screaming and no sharing. Spew: PM me a link if you put it up over to RC.com, as I have no compunctions about climbing a 23 pitch clip up route, sounds like Heaven to me!!!!. I'm just a climber and I tend to climb cracks, but I clip every bolt I run into generally:-) 23 pitch clip up? I'm getting wet here!! Hand me a Kleenex. Regards: Bill

TG: did you ever make it out to the water? I've been waiting to see how it went. BTW: Don't you live in Enterprise? If you are lookign for places to climb, ever climb at Angel Basin by Anthony? The old Lute Jerstadt bolted area or the nearby cliffs? The best 5.6 IMO in Oregon runs 3 pitches up solid granite right up out of that basin, protects 100 percent with nuts and hexes. I've never run into anybody who did it besides me, but my brother says he thinks Mead Hargis and Kim Schmitz probably did it @10 years before I climbed it in 1977.. Another place I see off the freeway and have never gone on it the diheadrals just east of the Dalles: visible from the freeway. Should be lots of great routes there. Have you tried those? Also, there is a tiny practice area real close to you out of Elgin. Might be the only climbable sandstone in the state of Or.

The have been reports of Lynx in the Oregon cascades. (No these evidently aren't Canadian Lynx dudes wandering lost). That area includes the Mt Hood National Forest. Anybody every see one of these? Every heard of anybody seeing one of these? I'm wondering if the ONRC may have zealosly started this rumor to stop the cutting of public forest land? Just curious?BTW: what do you think the odds of entire area closures are due to a Lynx management plan? (think Peregrines here)

Word to the wise make sure you are using HIS cams. Should reduce friction between you as his will invaritably be getting stuck and left due to his placements. Bill

There are some great points throughout the thread here. Infighting doesn't help the matter though. I'd lke to help out too. I wish I was an attorney: Gapertimmy has some great points and the "land managers" should be put to the wood. Frankly, it may be time to start attacking the forest service generally. They are wasting money like its not even there own. They were organized to cut down the forests. They did it. Now that there is a severe shortage of trees due to several factors (including overcutting) they are searching for a mission. Most of them need to find real jobs and learn to be productive members of society again IMO. I'm tired of paying saleries for crap like this cave process. I mean, think how much of our money these pricks spent on this, meetings after meetings after meetings after reports after modified reports after more meetings. And bubba: most of them are making more money than most of us. Do the math: it had to be millions. In the end nobody gets served. Dwayner: Although many of us find lots of points of agreement with you: this seems to me a classic one of those if "they" come and take away your neighbor, then "they" come and take away your friend, and you don't say anything because you don't feel it's your business, eventually then there won't be anybody to help you when "they" come to take you away. I think that may be a reason you are drawing some big fire on it. Bolts bring people: true, and people bring asswipes who will close down your climbing area: also true, but that is probably true bolts in it or not. To those of you who work in the FS, including one of my brothers and a climbing partner, it's time we shut this kind of wasteful crap down. Instead of worrying over the process, the process itself should be challenged. Don't even get me started about the $30,000 per fish (thats correct) Bonneville power is paying for salmon RIGHT NOW, via water release. I'm sorry to say that it appears only a great depression can re-align people attitudes. I feel like a salmon swimming upstream. Stop the madness. Ban the Forest Service and let them go to work again for a living.

I'd be onboard too!!How about trying to schedule it through the psu outdoor program? Think they would be interested or would that just make it too big?? Bill

So... to follow up on Wayne's Question.. and let me apologise in advance as some of you have already conveyed your thoughts that I'm a FUCKHEAD, , #1 fuckhead in fact, so I'm sure this question is about to cement that ranking: Uhhhh. Waynes question again: "Where is Flagstone?" Finn rock, quartz creek rd etc huh? ? Apologising again: Flame away now, I'm already sorry I FUCKING ASKED!!!! Skyclimb: thanks for sharing the story. Well spoken, sir. Edited to correct my speeling.

Timberline just emailed me (min ago) to say they had fresh snow from the recent rains down here and the palmer will re-open this weekend, sat and sun 8-2:30pm. Still a little warm, but what the hey. Whhhhooo HOOOOOOO anyway. http://www.timberlinelodge.com/conditions/conditions.asp Trying to be current here, this one is for Sept 9th, 2003 just so ya know!! Regards: Bill

dohhh!

I second Ian. More stable.

I know a recruiter who I think specialises in your field, do you want to PM me with a phone number and I'll have Frank call? I was surprised to find out somebody did that for a living (recruit biotech and something drug thing something workers) as it seems a very narrow field, but it's the truth, at least from my laymans piss poor ears it sounded like "biotech blah blah recruiter" something. I could be off, but who knows? Bill