billcoe

They say Lake Oswego should be dry. Thoughts?

I don't really know if any of them are "dumbasses". Ralston really sounded like he often would go looking for it though. Sure stupid and bad stuff happens. If you go hang it out, sometimes the unexpected happens. The further out you go - the higher the risk. So maybe many of the rest of us have luck and avoid the bad sh*t. I guess it could be easily avoided by staying on the internet critiquing others rather than actually going out and doing it. Thanks for sharing Dan. Warm regards: Bill

Did someone just get OUTTED? OMFG! Rumur is that Dru gets paid minimum wage to stir the sh*t up, and is real close to retirement now cause his bank account is full.

I think we can dispense with the whole ethics debate right now with a few thought changes. If we could all just say to ourselves "I'm right" (regardless of what that viewpoint is), "and everybody who thinks differntly is wrong" there would be no need for discussion. Wait, I think that IS whats being said by all of us. Nevermind, pointless post. If this keeps up I'm turning into Dru in a year or so.

I've done that route, have to disagree with you on that one Matt. I'm looking at Josephs rack of sh*t at the base of the route Joseph later named "Lost Warriors" and as we were racking for it I note that one of the little peckers is bent: so I ask him what happened to that one. "Oh", he says, "30 footer. Held." (maybe he said 20 footer, it's like a car wreck with me, kind of vague). Having followed Joseph up that pitch on the route you refer to, I can assure you that he does shit with a crack N' Up which many of us do not want to think about. In fact unaware that JH had solidly fixed one of his bomber crack N Ups for the following parties, I worked on it and and pulled it out blissfully unaware that he wanted it fixed. Anyway, once you do the route, perhaps you may re-assess your statement. Realistically the skills Joseph exibits in spades can be duplicated by anybody to get up his route, and most routes like it in fact. 1st) Tenacity. 2nd) Intellegence. 3rd) Strength. 4th) Little bit more Tenacity. However, there is a learning curve to all 3 of those. The easy way to shortcut all that "crap" like the 3 "skills" noted above, would be to toss a bunch of bolts in. Then you don't need vision or be tenacious to even think of getting on Lost Warriors, or most routes for that matter. No need to learn anything: mindlessly clip and go. Then people like Joseph and I get the shaft. Should they be held to a standard at all? Is that your question matt? Or can we dispense with learning, thinking, practicing, working, striving and yearning? Can't we just forgo all of that and make it easy and safe for begineers and experts alike? The technology does exist. Fu*k all, can't we just put in metal ladders with auto belay devices on every climb everywhere so that we can fix the risk for all climbs, for all climbers, at all times - at zero? Make climbing them in an unsafe manner at all - illegal, with serious reprecussions like fines and jail time for those who stray from the true path and choose to free solo or not clip the devices: like seatbelts in a car? That IS the question. I generally agree with Joseph and try to stay traditional. I, however, have plenty of shit under my bed so I can't really be too sanctimonial about all of this. But Matt, people can choose NOT to climb "Lost Warriors", or TO climb it. Hell, one look at it is reason enough not to go up there. Think of it, every climber who has climbed at Beacon Rock has walked by that line. It shoot right up, WAAAYY THE F*K UP THERE, past the sky, right over some huge scary, pants peeing, ball shrinking, blocks and overhangs. No one had the cajones to take a shot till Joseph stepped up to the plate. Using the 3 skills, and with a dash of vision: JH cranked it and cranked it in solid style! Hey, he's older than me too and I'm 50! It is to be commended and praised, not put down and told it was not in "good style". Commended Sir. No one even had the vision to take a shot at it, even to get up there an try to make it a bolt ladder. My next example is a glaring "rat turd in the sugar bowl" exemption, Beacon is a steadfast Trad area. 200-300 foot cracks abound. Bolts are used very sparingly, but there is some cognitive dissidence and grey areas here and there. As part of that idea: Joseph has been replacing many bad/old bolts, primarily at anchors, at Beacon. (Working tirelessly and paying for it with his own money in case you are curious). In fact, 2nd huge rat turd in the sugar bowl: there is a route I did 2 first ascents of just 40 feet to the right of Lost Warriors. It's currently a total clip up now. 1st time I led it, climbed the 70 foot route with like 2 or 3 small wireds with a piton I fixed for pro, scraping moss and tossing rocks as I went. A fall would have done me in. Opdycke belayed me. 2nd ascent like 14 years later, I've totally forgotten about doing the route the first time. I do not think anyone has climbed it since I did the FA. Kelly Warden and I show up, bolt it, we were going to call it 2nd ascent due to a rusty mystery lost arrow piton I embarrasingly found (and clipped) in the middle of the climb. Later, after running into Opdyke, he tells me that I did that route already and relays the whole story. He had named it "Rythem Method", cause there was no pro. So choice is available right there. Not climbing "Lost Warriors" is a definate option. Lets see, too much rambling and not enough points, Hmmm... how to finish? Ahhh: old standby, Gotta go: By by, see you out there! Bill

I THINK its @ 7. Of course, your results could vary dramatically as you know. Sketchfest might want to go it alone with a partner down by Tigar Paws.

First: I think thats a great idea Ivan (the dirt pile). But we can do it either way. Second: Dude, free soloing with weight in a backback? I don't like to give advice (of course thats a bald face lie which I using to introduce my statement) but you might consider slowing down a bit. 2-1/2 - if you got pulled off because of a bunch of dirt you stuff in a backpack your little baby would never forgive any of us for not speaking up. Third: maybe a new sport "extreeme Free-soloing" is now born wherin various climbers can load up with weight and fire some routes. The winner is the one with the most weight.....well, the one with the most wweight who doesn't fall off. Note: it has been pointed out to me that you never see a large tree growing on a cliff. The reason is that they generally get large enough that between the lack of nutrients and winter storms, they don't survive. But I think we'd all like to see the tree there for many years: It's a great belay point and nice to get a slight bit of shade sometimes, and it's a worthy project.

? NOLSE! long time, hope all is well and its the full schizzel up there for you. Looks like you can break out the tools and the raincoats this Sunday if the weatherman is correct!

Cool, we'll look for ya. Tuesday was Hanger and I. (my only critera is perfect belays ... mandatory) Regards: Bill

Mark will be there tomorrow! Yeaaa!

Nah: We're talking Ecco dress shoes. They were looking fairly good till I jumped on the route. Starting a new trend with the dress shoes and folloing up on M. Layton climbing in Tevas. Probably just another fad that won't take off, nobody would want to pay $150 for a pair of floppy dress shoes for climbing. Thats the 2nd time I've forgot my climbing shoes. I formerly had the habit of leaving a pair in my car, and then the shoe resoler guy told me I'd trashed a pair (rubber got hard from the heat) mearly from leaving them in the car. So now I try and be responsible and take care of them an look what happens. DOH DOH.

Complainer. Perhaps this is the new wave of customer service. They will wait for you to come in, size you up, then decide how much to charge based on how much money they think you have. Either that, or they will miss out on the first 200 people interested in doing business with them, then do a price sheet too late, give it to the first guy to accidentally walk in, he will publish it here since no one who has been asking, and there are apparnetly many, has been able to obtain the info, and all the circuit is out is a couple of hundred customers. Not that I care since I don't get to the gym. Voila. I can't figure it out Ireno, but all kidding aside: and as an aside to the circuit guys: wish you well in this endevor. In a growing market, I suspect and hope that both PRG and you will have enough customers to make a living and stay in biz. Good luck and keep in touch.

I TOLD YOU SO Could you repeat this? I didn't hear you the first time. DON'T MAKE ME CUT AND PASTE YOUNG MAN! He said it, I heard it.

Marcus you bastard! I just woke up: realized where those nuts were located and what you did, drove down there and bought the last set MINUS a #4! Man was I friggan snoozing or what? I'd tried 3-4 internet sites and figured they were gone. But they were hanging on the wall of ClimbMax the whole time till you snagged them. Another classic case of "you snoose, you loose" and "might as well pay for the good stuff". I'd been too cheap to purchse them at like $13-$15 each earlier. Well, gotta go.....back to sleep. Early bird really does snag the worm and the HB nuts too. congrats. Maybe you have a rental program? Cya

The rumr is Thurs at toothpick? (Paul, feel free to speak up here) I will bring my shoes this time. I've decided that taking them out of the pack to air and dry out in my basement after climbing has a down side to it.

I just noticed hat they changed your handle again. You must be paying extra. I like "Whiner Extraordinaire!" better than all the Horse-sex Enumclaw versions. I'm still a wanker. Nothing new there.

Using a 3-1/2 for most areas around here would normally be suggested if you are power drilling. Powers web site will show you the increase in tensile and shear going from 3500 lbs at 2" length to 4395 at 3-1/2 in 2000 psi concrete. Given the inconsistancies in rock, longer is better. This effect will decrease as the bolt lengthens, so a 3/8 x 10" bolt won't be signifigantly better than a 3/8 x 5 say, in anything other than CaCa rock. Stepping up a diameter will gain you signifigant strength if you wish. check this: http://www.powers.com/pdfs/mechanical/06914.pdf BTW: always use stainless steel. I've been stupid and poor enough to put in plated steel and it's always pissed me off to see a rusting bolt which was caused by me a short period of time later. They even will rust on the East side, although it will take longer of course. Powers part number 5914 will get you the 3/8 x 3-1/2 SS Powers Bolt (formerly Rawl 5 piece). Say AHHHHH! and spend the money so that there is longevity. Plated 5 pieces will rust at the threads and get stuck, they are not easily replaced like you would expect. SNAP RIGHT OFF. For real soft rock, drilled baby angles epoxyed in, or SS u-bolts epoxyed in are the ticket. Check this undergrad thesis of an Aussie dude to see it. Very interesting. http://www.chockstone.org/TechTips/SandstoneBolting.pdf And never drill a 3/8 bolt with any thing other than a 3/8 drill unless you have a death wish. regards; Bill

How about shoes-harness-belay device and a rope or 2? See you where the chain link fence starts on the left (just before the bible domes) at 5:45 OK?

Lets do the next little group Robert - its all easier. Say blueberry, emotional rescue and stuff.

Before this thing gets put in spray: let me say I think its a good question. You are so correct that no one can agree on it too. Generally I believe that if you can't ask the FA, unless you are positive it is the correct thing to do: and have discussed it endlessly with everybody concerned, probably best to walk away and just go do another route don't you think? If everybody buys in, ie "dude, thats a great idea" kind of response, and really, that means everybody, not say a handful of gym buddies, then it's not only an easy call to put the bolt in, but it's the right thing to do. Otherwise, walking away, toproping the route or something else should be the correct course of action would you not agree? Note that I started out by saying "I believe". Your results may vary.

Maybe a party, but I sniff some drunken highball sandbag shennanigans about to hit like a Tsunami! BTW: http://www.cascadeclimbers.com/threadz/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/491086/Main/428491/#Post491086

Who's in for PDX tonight and where do you want to go? I'm thinking of bouldering and taking it easy anyway but might be swayed to the dark side if theres not a big herd.

Wow, seems kind of harsh dude. I've had it bad, but not that bad....yet. __________________________________________________ Iceguy, my advice: "Organise and execute around written priorities." Sit down and decide for yourself, excatly what that is, then put it down on paper. Good luck.

It could be a rumr started to clear some gear out, but I suspect otherwise.

nice stuff ML, thanks for sharing!