Buckaroo

"that 'the other side' is capable of pulling off world-wide hoaxes on the rest of humanity" The CIA and alphabet agencies are the police arm of the monied elite. It's hard to comprehend their power because they have worked in secret for so long and their capabilities have evolved over decades. I compare it to a well evolved piece of machinery like a desktop PC. If you were highly educated and followed the technical development from day one you might understand exactly how a PC works, otherwise it's only a mystery. This is not the best comparison though because knowledge of PC's is fully available unlike the secrets of the CIA. ""The theorist's need to be seen as perfect - smarter, 'ahead of the herd', and all that."" It's the journey that's important to me, what other people think is peripheral. What's wrong with not being one of the people that can be fooled all the time? Intelligence is part of it, but education is more important. ""because the theorist rejects all counter evidence and arguments as being either an active or passive part of the conspiracy"" No, everything is weighed factually, the governments argument just doesn't hold up to factual educated scrutiny. ""and we're also inherently blabber mouths."" a popular argument. Too many people would know and someone would talk. The CIA has the largest collection of high paid highly trained assassins of any agency in the world. If they want you dead, you are most likely dead. It's like the mafia, you don't talk and you can never leave. Sure sometimes people get into a position to talk, if they can't be killed then their exposure in the media is distorted and held back. This can be a legitimate source of info though. Some insiders that go rouge realize they can talk if they remain low exposure low profile.

Simple answer? I don't watch TV (it's in the closet), I spend that time researching things. with the advent of the internet there is a huge library at your fingertips, all you have to do is tap into it. maybe it's because I'm single and financially set, so I have more time but the info is out there you just have to spend the time ""Here's a person who firmly believes in the concept of human perfection - that 'the other side' is capable of pulling off world-wide hoaxes on the rest of humanity which, apparently, is somewhat less than perfect in that same person's view."" No the hoax is not perfect. Propaganda is expensive, they bring it to a level that will convince 90% of the people, because that's good enough. It's not cost effective to make it perfect. But it takes time and diligence to sort it out and discover that 10 percent error that proves it's false. For the person that has no time due to life circumstance this may be impossible. So they take the expedient route and believe the TV and we end up where we are now. There's a reason that education and jobs are going to hell. They don't want people smart enough to figure out they are being screwed. They want you working two jobs so even if your smart you don't have enough time. "everyone else moves on because there are a lot better ways to spend your energy." I would rather spend a little time and thus avoid being an unwitting victim.

Real Bin Laden vids Osama faces the camera and maintains eye contact. Camera zooms in for close ups of his face. In focus good lighting good sound quality for voice ID you can clearly identify that it is Bin Laden Fake Bin Laden vids double does not face camera, does not maintain eye contact no close ups of face out of focus poor lighting (dark) poor sound quality, high background noise you can not clearly identify person except for about 3 frames when the double turns his face upwards and the lower half is exposed to lighting. specific facial differences mainly the nose length difference, real Osama has a longer nose than fake Osama look at the distance from the eye's center-line to the nostril center-line, then look at the distance from the nostril line to the lip center-line. On the real Osama the nostril line is about 2/3 down between the eyes and the lips. On the fake Osama the nostril line is about 1/2 way down between the eyes and the lips. also note the puffy cheeks of the fake Osama compared to the flat cheeks of the real Osama. Here's an excerpt from the "confession" vid. Tell me if you can clearly identify who this really is with this quality of vid. [video:youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KhctMpvszqQ

Here's some video screen grabs Videos 1,2,4 are real, Video 3 is the fake "confession" vid released by the CIA. Note that the real Osama looks directly into the camera for most of the duration of his videos. Note that fake #3 never looks into the camera even once. Note the focus and lighting of 1,2,4 compared to the poor focus and lighting of 3. This screen grab of 3 is about the best of the entire vid, the rest of it is darker, this is the only place where the actor turns his face up into the light and you can see his features, it's only about 3 frames of the entire vid so you have to go frame by frame. Note where the bottom of the nose ends, the nose is shorter in 3, note the fat cheek of 3 and if you watch the vid this actor is much heavier than the real Osama.

They are going to play with their toys regardless. They were on some kind of mission, who knows because they've presented no evidence. They blew the thing up and collected whatever bits were left that were secret. After a year or so they give the stuff away to the Chinese anyway, just to keep them in the game.

Yes, you're probably right, it may be speculative. There is no hard evidence he died in 2001. The only thing really is the Benazir Bhutto statement. The circumstantial evidence is that he was a very high profile person. He released professionally produced videos at least once a year. At some point in 2001 he was never heard from again. There were also a few news reports from middle eastern agencies that he died. The narrative from our government though is much more suspect IMHO. After 2001 two very fake videos of really poor quality. Even with the poor quality though you can tell it's a weak look alike actor. Also you have to look at the real reasons for war. Terror is an excuse and at the heart of that terror is a figurehead. If you can find the real reasons for war it shows the terror to be fake.

You're kidding right? They've already stated that this doesn't change the war on terror. They are not responding to any amount of pressure either. During the vote for the $700 Billion crooked banker bailout 80% of the public was against it and we called our reps like never before. Totally ignored us, and it passed anyway. Does everyone realize this is the longest war we've ever been in? Of course it's also the most money ever spent. We defeated the Germans and the Japanese in less time and with less money. Now we are having a perpetual war with people in dirt training camps. That's because it's not really a war that we are trying to win, it's just a defense spending spree.

Like I said, if you are arguing for the government all you are going to wind up with is ad hom.

The argument is that he was already dead. They have been keeping him alive since 2001 because he was their Emanuel Goldstien. I guess Obama thought he needed a bump since for the first time in his presidency his disapproval rating passed his approval. He did get about a 10 point bump, but it will be temporary because unemployment is still at 20%.

speak for yourself

considering Al CIAduh was originally started by the CIA? according to the Orwell TV? Got any video evidence? Is coercion a possibility? according to the Orwell TV? Got any video evidence? Is coercion a possibility? LOLZ!! The warmongers will say anything to continue their highly lucrative endeavor. In case you're not paying attention, the argument is that he was already dead. ???? Proves absolutely nothing Battles have been taking place for more than a decade now, proves absolutely nothing for your "argument" Capacity to act means the act certainly occurred? Just trying to follow your "logic" here. Besides they are not capable of killing someone who already died in 2001. Repeat, Al CIAduh is a fabrication of the CIA. 90% of the populace gets their "news" from the wholly corporate owned television. That assumes 90% don't question even when there is no hard evidence. That's called a "straw man" argument. What we have supporting it's a hoax are two very easily proved fake videos of "bin laden". What we have is hard evidence of a long history of the government lying to the public to foment war. come at me bro. If you are arguing the warmonger government's position all you have is ad hominem. There is something called in layman's terms, "hard evidence". The White House in this case has presented ZERO hard evidence, when if the story was true it would be very easy to present hard evidence. The very fact they have presented none is damning in and of itself.

Are you arguing with known history? you're a TV indoctrinated sheeple.

"...Let me remind you only of the witch-hunts of the middle ages, the horrors of the French revolution, or the genocide of the American Indians... in such periods there are always only a very few who do not succumb. But when it is all over, everyone, horrified, asks `for heaven's sake, how could I?' " Albert Speer, Hitler's minister of war production, writing from prison in 1953. "Hitler's concept of concentration camps as well as the practicality of genocide owed much, so he claimed, to his studies of English and United States history. He admired the camps for Boer prisoners in South Africa and for the Indians in the wild west; and often praised to his inner circle the efficiency of America's extermination - by starvation and uneven combat - of the red savages who could not be tamed by captivity." P. 202, "Adolph Hitler" by John Toland

Obama increased the annual defense budget from $650 Bil to $735 Billion. We spend more money on defense than the next 90% of the world combined. (and at the same time we are firing our teachers) It's the only thing left that we do good, building bombs. [video:youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dfLgub2dhb4

Orwell was so prescient, 90 percent get their "news" from the TV that's wholly owned by 5 defense connected corporations like GE. ""Ignorance is Strength War is Peace Freedom is Slavery"" who will be the next Emmanuel Goldstein there Ivan? We are at war with "terror" how convenient, as soon as one podunk 3rd world hell hole folds we move on to the next because that's where the "terror" is.

The most successful genocide in the history of man. Before WW2 Hitler sent emissaries to study how it was done.

[video:youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4PgpbQfxgo

Really surprised how many seemingly right thinking people buy a big load of military industrial media complex garbage. Don't forget after all 5 defense connected corporations own all the TV, so they totally control the "news". When it comes to killing the CIA and our military make Osama's kills look like pocket change. During the bombings of Iraq between the first and 2nd Gulf wars we killed close to 500,000 Iraqi children. Allbright said that was "acceptable". When it comes to the military we don't even do body counts anymore. They don't hate us because of our freedom, they hate us because we bomb them to death. Funny how on OBL's FBI most wanted page there's no mention of 911. Funny how the FBI says there's no evidence linking Osama to 911. Funny how if you look at the 2002 Osama confession video frame by frame it becomes painfully obvious it's not even close to being Osama. Osama was a "terror" patsy figurehead, originally connected to the CIA when the Afghan's were fighting the Russians. Obama's ratings were at a new low, for the first time his unfavorable going past his favorable. This was purely a photo op for ratings. In this day of hi-res digital photos and video, how come there's ZERO evidence being shown? If this farce was really legit and they actually killed someone that's been dead since 2001 then it was an extra judicial killing. After all Obama has declared even with US citizens that he has the right to declare you a "terrorist" and have you assassinated without trial.

a snake fell 70 ft and it didn't get hurt?

If you're thin or anemic you better take a couple extra bags of blood so you can set up an IV drip if necessary.

The carabiner gate may open under a heavy load, posing a risk of serious injury or death if the climber falls. The Photon model carabiners are used by climbers as connectors.... Outdoor retail stores sold the carabiners nationwide from February 2011 through March 2011 for between $8 and $12. They were made in China. ha ha, I guess if you are a climber you can get "connected" maybe the metal supplier at the Chinese factory melted down some aluminum pots instead of providing 7075.

Some 5mil tech cord might work (New England). It's static and very stiff especially after it's been weighted, this also means it tangles less. Very expensive though but it will hold full weight on raps. http://promountainsports.com/index.php/climbing/ropes/tech-cord-5mm-60m.html

Pot will not help you if Hood decides to come after you. People have been found in their snow cave, frozen like popsicles with their pot by their side doing nothing. It's dangerous to tell people that pot is going to save them from the dreaded Hood when it's not going to happen.

Mitochondria100 with 2 friends, hanging it out on Mt Borah in Idaho something nice and different within a days driving range http://cascadeclimbers.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=982758 Steph Abegg big time peak bagging in the Canada Rockies http://cascadeclimbers.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=975651 JoshK and Wayne's 1st Complete Northern Pickets Traverse http://cascadeclimbers.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=476685 Colin and Mark's Index Traverse in Winter http://cascadeclimbers.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/643839/1

Don't ever underestimate Hood. There's dead bodies still up there of people that underestimated Hood. this is like a minimum non-negotiable list, in addition to all the regular stuff like already mentioned, helmet, axe etc. Shovel (at least 1 for the party, and know how to dig a snow cave) Stove (at least 1 for the party) Fuel (enough for 3 days to melt snow for water) Pot 1 foam pad per person (3/4 okay) 1 puff jacket per person Wind/rain gear, including pants, this is more for the wind extra gloves, can easily get lost in the wind 1 bivy sack for the party, in case someone gets hurt. other things you might want, to keep from getting turned around by conditions touk or turtlefur goggles mitts