RuMR

but but but what about dwayner???

i kinda face climb the intitial thin part of boc (hanging off the side)...the actual jammin' section is straight in... Yeppers...doesn't feel bad reaching around into the layback over the roof...10-...no way 10+ Think about it...w/o the crux (ledge), that thing feels like sagitarius...right?

the only real difference i can see is that all of the other ones mentioned are pretty much straight in while TF kinda angles...maybe that's what really got you on that first go? Just a thought...

I dunno...i have super small hands...feet are too good for that thing to be more than low 10

Yeah...i saw that on 60 minutes...fucking unbelievable...30 degree water in just an ordinary swimsuit and she's in it for almost half an hour!!! I almost have a heartattack when my wetsuit floods in puget sound water...and that's a balmy 48 or so...good god...

They are both .10a ....think about it...heart of the country is a decent .10b...they are both easier by a smidge...likewise, the 2nd pitch of davis holland (.10a)...about the same as that...these are kinda your standard index 10a's, right? The second pitch of narrow arrow is .10 a or b, and feels in the same ballpark... Only thing on thin fingers approaching .11 is the step off the ledge... Big Toes feels like .11a...

Matt...gotta be careful here...cc.com hardly speaks for the climbing community at large...so i'm not sure its a representative cross section of the folks around here...

I think it would be worthwhile to check them out...Redpoint at smith carries them... FWIW...You do not need to fit these super tight at all...no dead space is all you need (toes don't even need to be downturned)...don't fret the heel...it feels funky but works well... They are fairly cheap at telemark-pyrenees as well...you won't be disappointed if they fit...

Its good bob...contact Marty Bland for info...there is lots of other stuff there as well...

I'll see what i can do...they are more of a cragging shoe...don't think i'd tramp around in them too much... 5.10 is getting their quality control back...they are now building their own shoes... For some reason, ALL of my fivetens have held up really well...i do have friends though, that destroy theirs very quickly...guess i'm careful w/ them...as i've said, Ramuta has been able to go 3 to 5 resoles on them w/o complaining...

Yer puny old-man leg couldn't squash a bug, RuM(p)R(anger). Dwayner was fun to punch around. HAHAHAHA...guess i'm not a punter then...

Erik...have you tried anazasis?? They are the shit for technical face (read: Smith)...felt as powerful as synchros and a hell of lot more sensitive...better nose for pockets too... Bunglehead...depends on your foot...it seemed that the moccasyms fit a little wider foot than the pinks do...what was your main problem w/ the mocc's??

They are both cats of sorts aren't they?

I got a pink anazasi on my foot w/ your rearend's address on it...will that work???

stretches too fast...his post was rippin' the mocc's for that...i think he's thinking a shoe as opposed to a slipper...

Bunglehead...try the pink anazasis...they are hands-down THE BEST SHOE OUT THERE, don't stretch (so no need to get them crushingly tight), are essentially plastic (so you can throw them in the washing machine-->no stink)...the nose kicks ass in pockets and thin cracks and nothing is better on technical face...they are ok at really really steep stuff too (we don't have much of that around here, but i mentioned it anyway)...only caveat, they have to fit your foot... I've put 5 resoles on a pair...

LACEUPS...bag those mesas...TOO stiff... the laceups are better at cracks than the ace anyway...

Ascent-->sport shoe

Best edging shoe, hands down is the pink velcro anazasi...better than stiffened models cuz u can still feel whats going on and better than the velcro version cuz its a bit beefier...good crack shoe too...

Personally, i'd rather it be open gun carry than concealed... That way EVERYONE knows the deal...

That's why i reccommended Rotterdam...big city and most of the punks (american) go to Amsterdam...

The place ROCKS! Check out Rotterdam also...

Steve... First, a very thoughtful post on the many issues present... I have to say though, that alot of what you are describing will "naturally" (and i mean naturally, in the sense of time, not nature) occur...This is a fact of the sheer numbers of climbers and the many more that are entering the sport. So, what can be done? What would be some mitigating steps that could be taken? I don't know...some advocate keeping climbing dangerous w/ some sparks to it...this would tend to keep traffic down, but increase toproping...either way, this sport will have impacts just based on the masses... Rudy Ruana

Yeah...i can second that...go w/ Wild Country or BD for .5 or bigger...

ahhh...sphinx...you're killing me...throwin' gas on flames... Zimm...i'd recommend checking some other people's racks out and using some of the stuff before buying it...even CHEAP cams really aren't that cheap and you might as well really really dig what you're forking the money over for... Personally, I like BD cams...I have several solid stem old school friends that rock also...but lately, i've been finding the bd's on my harness and the friends on the ground... For small stuff, i like the metolius tcu's and fcu's...they "push" around in cracks...several people just scream about aliens...but its a personal choice... Use some of the stuff first...