Off_White

these men are hard men. they like their eggs hard boiled and their women hard hearted. they don't wear underwear they wear hardware these men are hard to believe (quoted from memory, author unrecalled from some Mountain Gazette from the mid 70's) What is all this blather about MLBs? Granted, I've only been climbing for 35 years so I still have a lot to learn, but I've never even heard of these silly things until this most recent missing climbers on Hood issue. Has the market in those "help, I've fallen and can't get up" emergency beacons for elders become so saturated that they've got to try and sell that shit to us also? Battery operated techno widgets are no substitute for skill, knowledge, judgement, and personal responsibility. Push button "help me Mr. Wizard" beacons can only supply a false sense of security to people who shouldn't be there in the first place. We all knew people who died in car accidents or from heart attacks, but no one is advocating for automotive proximity alarms or implanted cholesterol monitors. The decisions we all make every day, whether it's to back up that cam with another piece or to stay on my side of the double yellow line, have a direct impact on whether we live or die. If you're advocating for mandatory MLB's you either stand to profit from the situation or you're advocating a Nanny State that very few people would want to live in.

Hey, c'mon, at least I tried to turn that idea into a good flares for beer program.

Dale, your idea is essentially to drop garbage all over the mountain in the hopes that people no one has made visual contact with will find them and use them. Night time rescue is not an option. The only way this idea could be acceptable is if you secured sponsorship from an Oregon brewery and anyone who finds one of these packets can exchange them for a six pack of Terminal Gravity stout or some such.

Hey Woodsgirl: You live near the Tieton? Would you ever get tired of folks asking you what do you do for fun out there, do you have running water, what do you do with those sheep, and here's how I'd run your farm if I didn't have to live in Chicago? You've got moxie, and that's a huge plus. If you ever decide you want to stop being a spectator and go climbing on those crags in your neighborhood (and it's as good a place to learn as anywhere in the state) then you'd have a hard time doing better than hooking up with some of the raucous yahoos on this site. There are other more genteel approaches to climbing education, and guess what, a lot of those folks live here too and can point you in the right direction.

I can think of no better way to say "fuck off Pink, Joseph does have a sense of humor" than this. Actually, my thoughts have been running somewhat down this track, and I'm cogitating on an epistle and policy to separate the chaff from the wheat post mass media/public wahoo. I for one don't want to see this place try and compete with RC.com or NWHikers for tender sincerity in the grand scheme of things. Damned board upgrade still lacks a barfing graemlin.

Well, if I had to hazard a guess (and I don't), I'd say a blog is one persons perspective with an option for comments from the plebes, whereas starting topics here are open to anyone. This place has it's roots in an earlier bbs concept of (pre web) online communication, where someone "owns" it but content is "member" driven, as compared to the more soapbox blog "here's what I, the lord of this site think style. Can anyone expound on what personal opinions the owners of this site are, aside from freshiez are cool and chaos rules? Bulletin boards are more egalitarian/anarchy and Blogs are more dictatorial/narcissistic. In my opinion of course, ya'll are free to tell me to go gargle butt gravy.

Don't get your knickers in a twist Randy, you've been out in the formal dining room and you've just wandered into the basement rumpus room with the burnt cork ceilings and orange shag carpet.

We may pick up a few new regulars, but I'm guessing most will move on once the situation is resolved. Climbing just isn't that interesting if you're not involved in it, and once there's no need to be so considerate of the friends and family of the missing, folks here will not be so tolerant of louts prattling on about MLUs and such. "That" thread is sort of an anomalous thing that's merely hosted here, with some very good and patient input from a number of regulars. A big thanks to all of you folks who've been so helpful and polite. On another tack, there has also been great rebuttal to a number of wacked out suggestions and off base spray from the ill informed, not just with regard to silly magic beacons, but rescue costs, procedures, and the undesirability of more government regulation in climbing.

Damn, why don't you just tell the guy there's climbing on some kind of volcanic plug on the Washington side of the Columbia sort of near Portland. I bet Blowboarder has a noogie for you.

No Jens, I don't think you should delete the post, and this is a much more appropriate thread for such a discussion. My objection of Luke et. al.'s posts are most strenuously about the thread they're in and the friends, family, and media people who would read it and not have enough climbing experience to make their own assessment with regard to the validity of his claims. I do think the mountain closure is a bad thing, one that was quite likely influenced by the discussions here. Sure, most eyes are on the main Hood incident thread in the Oregon forum, but much of this sort of stuff will be widely read too. It's a good time to consider what one is saying. Sky, thanks for that observation, it's been rattling around in my head too.

You might be right Jens, there's an awful lot of new folks reading the board these last few days. In the past we've definitely confirmed that law enforcement and rangers of all sorts read this board. On a different note, people sometimes ask what it takes to get banned. Luke the Drifter provides a fine example, and he won't be posting again.

In case anyone missed it, a post in some other thread makes it clear that Badbill & company reconsidered their climbing plans and are not headed up Hood this weekend. It also sounds like he knows what he's doing on that hill.

All these, new to me this year, have seen heavy rotation of late: The Hold Steady - Separation Sunday (as if Springsteen remembered how to rock and actually did drugs) The Thermals - The Body, The Blood, The Machine (brilliant punk rock concept epistle about life under a christian cult) The Evens (Ian MacKaye and his girlfriend form a largely acoustic band that can travel in a small car) The Weakerthans - Reconstruction Site (Winnipeg band makes the most heart wrenchingly lovely album I've heard in a long time.)

Oh, I think we're done here. Question answered, so I'd appreciate it if ya'll would put away your knives and move along.

From Tony's site:

Okay, so no one has an answer that works for you. Hop to it then, please post a TR when you get back.

11,249 - 7,000 4,249 feet

Hoh man, way to dredge 'em up Red Nose.

Strap on the nitro, boys!

Yeah, there's nothing bureaucratic holding back the SAR folks, it's strictly the conditions. 23" of snow overnight, white out, and blowing up to a sustained 80 mph? It wouldn't take much to go from being a rescuer to needing a rescue. In good conditions Hood seems so moderate and friendly, so many people climb it, how hard can it be? I'll wager you could get a pretty good answer to that question right about now up there.

Interestingly enough, there's a current thread over on Supertaco that's somewhat related, a discussion around restoring/upgrading fixed hardware on Space Babble on Middle Cathedral in the Valley. For those unfamiliar, Space Babble is perhaps the crown jewel of run out Middle face climbing. The crux first pitch features sparse pin protection driven up into some marginal flakes. At question is how to upgrade the gear without destroying the flavor of the route, and Kevin Worral, one of the FA's, is quite involved in the discussion. If you want to check it out, the thread is "the road to space babble" and it bleeds over into several other threads.

I tried Rainier in the winter in 1979 just after I moved up here from California. It was, ummm, "educational." Ran into Yvon Chouinard in the Paradise lot who had just retreated from a ski attempt because there was too much snow.

Krav Maga is the discipline you seek.

I'm not always an officious twit, I just play one on the internet.

I wonder when this thread is going to show up on ABC?