Mtguide

It might be worth a visit to a good orthopedist who specializes in hands. Though I'm certainly no physician, it sounds as if it may be neurological; while bone spurs (ostephytes) can cause a burning pain, they would also cause pain during activity, as would arthritis, rather than just at night or afterward. Arthritis can be quite a sharp pain, but is more often an aching or motion-related pain, rather than a post-activity burning sensation. I'd certainly encourage you to see someone as soon as possible, especially as this has been going on for some time now. You don't indicate where you're located, but if you're in Portland, an excellent orthopedist is Dr. Ira Weintraub, himself an avid and active climber and skier. Best of luck.

That worked really well in the past, that's why we never had crazy stupid wars nobody wanted until 9/11 right? Fucking genius Strong second that; ALL wars (yes,even WWII, and ESPECIALLY WWI) are crazy and stupid. The United States has started many crazy and stupid wars, such as the genocide of the Native Americans, the war for the "liberation"(read: outright theft) of Texas, the Spanish-American War(desired and encouraged by the vile United Fruit Co., which wanted control of the Cuban banana plantations--the war was fomented by the explosion of the battleship Maine, which the US claimed was a deliberate bomb or mine, and later turned out to be a boiler explosion(the Maine was a steamship)), and everyone's all-time favorite craziest and stupidest, the Vietnam War( which was also started, by the US, based on a complete and utter lie about an attack on the USS Tonkin, an incident which never happened, a total fabrication. The Second Iraq War was totally unnecessary, therefore also crazy and stupid. It has served little else but to destroy an entire society and country, kill over one million innocent Iraqis, the permanent maiming and disfigurement of at least 55,000 US troops, the waste of hundreds of billions that the US desperately needed to be spent at home for all kinds of infrastructure and social projects, and last but not least, has killed some 5000 of our best and brightest young men and women, and orphaned and widowed many thousands on both sides whose loved one is now gone forever, leaving in its wake the deepest kind of life-long, unending pain. All while smirky, spoiled rotten little GW sits on his hobby ranch in Crawford, Texas and thinks he did nothing wrong. Even so-called "just" wars are crazy and stupid, WWII a prime example. Started by Hitler, a certified madman, the only reason it was not crazy and stupid on the part of the US to enter it was that it WAS necessary, doing nothing was not an option, unless you'd prefer to be speaking German or Japanese right now, be ruled by the Thousand-Year Third Reich, with ongoing genocide a daily fact of life. Our own Revolutionary War was "necessary" due to the arrogance and intransigence of King George, but no less crazy and stupid. It could have been avoided, to the greater peace and prosperity of both sides. Likewise our own Civil War, which was so ferocious and bloody that even the most vicious and bloodthirsty nations of Europe and Asia were appalled by the savagery that threatened to completely tear apart the United States. It pretty much did succeed in utterly destroying the South for many generations, and Southerners are still filled with deepest hatred for the "Yankee" North. Oh, and despite our "detente" with Russia, China and others, the various disarmament treaties and arrangements, we still have thousands of nuclear weapons pointed at each other, in a hilarious little situation called Mutual Assured Destruction, or MAD. Great, just great....

Hmmmmm--I think he's trying to say they're LOSERS! BTW I heard another #15 seed upset another #2 seed but not who it was--any one?

I think you're smart to back off and wait a bit. With the forecast winds at 35 to 50 at the elev. of I-Rock, and an ambient high temp Wed. of about 27, you're looking at a windchill factor of around 5 or 6 above. Actually the Nat. Weather Service says it could be as low as -1. Pretty rugged conditions. Also note that avy danger for Wed. is still rated considerable, with more snow, another storm system on the way. As far as weather windows are concerned, I always like to allow at least a 72-hr window, minimum. You begin your approach while the weather is still bad, but on it's way out. By the time you're well into your route, and then on the descent, you still have another 36 to 48 hrs safety margin, just in case something goes wrong, giving you adequate time and decent weather to self-rescue, or for mountain rescue to locate and bring you in, if need be. Under the current forecast, especially at those temps, if anything did go wrong, especially an injury accident, you wouldn't have a lot of time before things got very serious. I know 72 hrs. may seem unrealistic, a pipe dream, at this time of year, so you just have to rush in and grab what you can, when you can. But it's always wise to remember that no matter how young, tough, fast and strong you are, the mountain and the weather are, maybe not younger, but one hell of a lot bigger, tougher, and stronger, and no one can outrun weather moving at 40 to 60 miles an hour. And it can always throw surprises at you, do things that the forecasters could never have guessed. I'm pretty sure that Illumination will still be there once this spell of weather has headed east.

I would think that any real mountaineering course worthy of the name would be providing you with just exactly this sort of information on clothing and equipment. If you don't mind my asking, where are you taking this course and who's running it? Are you paying for this instruction, or is it a free or low fee course through a community college program of some sort? If you're paying, you should already have been given a very complete and detailed list of clothing and equipment, at the outset. But then, perhaps they don't pass out that info. until the beginning of the class. Smart of you to want to get a jump on it. Anyway, it should certainly be part of any good course on climbing and mountaineering. That said, I'd refer you to the book which is the basic text for all The Mountaineers climbing courses, the basic "Bible" for all beginning climbers, and which is useful until well along in your climbing career. The book is: "Mountaineering:Freedom of the Hills", published by the Mountaineers. I believe the edition out now is the 7th edition, comes in both hardback and paperback. Buy it, NOW. read and study it thoroughly, frequently. Get to know it backwards and forwards, and equip yourself according to the various lists it has, depending on the particular climbing activity you're going to be doing. Some other excellent books are: "Glacier Mountaineering: An Illustrated Guide to Glacier travel and Crevasse Recue" by Andy Tyson and Mike Clelland. "The Mountaineering Handbook" by Craig Connally "On Snow and Rock" by Gaston Rebuffat. Although now far outdated as to the type of gear shown, the basic principles and methods, the wisdom , cautions and inspiration for climbing set forth by the famed French guide are timeless, pithy, uplifting and dead on. This is what an "alpinist" is, and his book is an excellent guide to how to start becoming one. There may have been guides and alpinists as good as Rebuffat, but there have been none better. "Glacier Travel and Crevasse Rescue" by Andy Selters. pub. by The Mountaineers "Glaciers! The Art of Travel and the Science of Rescue" by Michael Strong, Eck Doerry and Ryan Ojiero. A Falcon Guide in the How To Climb series. There are, of course, many,many books on alpinism,climbing and mountaineering. These are a few of the best to get started with, and will give you plenty to chew on for now.I would also refer you to Jim Nelson at Pro Mountain Sports in Seattle regarding solid advice on actual brands and makers of clothing, boots, and technical gear. Frequent the various climbing and mountaineering stores such as REI, Marmot MountainWorks, Feathered Friends, Mountain Hardware, begin to familiarize yourself with the various brand names and makers like Black Diamond, Patagonia, Petzl, North Face, etc., pig out on catalogs and brochures and get to know what's out there, BUT DON'T BUY ANYTHING YET, until you start your course and begin to learn and understand just what you really need and why, and what's best suited for you, for now, here in the dawn of your days in the mountains. Believe me, there'll be plenty of time to pile up gear later. One thing you could go ahead and buy for now would be a good USGS map, a 7.5 min. quad of MT Baker, and good guidebook of routes on the mountain,and really familiarize yourself with that mountain. Also buy a good quality compass, the best you can afford, with a good instructional book on how to use a map and compass,or refer to that section in Freedom of the Hills. The Silva Ranger, in it's various sizes, and Silva Explorer are two good choices. Suunto and Brunton are also excellent, usually a little more pricey. Eventually you'll want a GPS and an altimeter, but leave that for much later. LEARN THE COMPASS, first, last and always. It will never lie, doesn't depend on batteries or barometric pressure,and will get you where you need to go, but ONLY if you know how to use it. Take that compass and get to really know and understand thoroughly the art of navigation and orienteering. This is stuff you can practice in the schoolyard, in your neighborhood, on your next hike. For now, never go anywhere to hike without a USGS quad of the area and your compass, and always take an interest in the terrain and geography from the standpoint of a mountaineer. If you're a complete novice/beginner, please don't venture out unprepared or untrained on anything like Baker or other big, or even smaller alpine peaks. Wait until you've taken your course and are well-equipped; and even then, you still are just beginning, so be absolutely sure that your guides and instructors are competent. Take things one step at a time, learn each lesson and aspect thoroughly, until it becomes second nature. You have a long way to go. Safe travels and adventuring, best of luck and welcome to the grand world of alpinism. Best wishes for a long, happy and successful career on the heights.

While it's obviously sunny, it also looks like it was a little teensy bit CHILLY/breezy there by the seaside, with all those ski hats and jackets, etc., eh? not quite spring yet, even down there in sunny Cal.

I think some of these kinds of people, having been raised in"blueblood' families, with every advantage, feel this kind of arrogant entitlement because they actually have BEEN more or less entitled to any- and everything they ever wanted or needed, their entire lives. And I think that includes being really spoiled behaviorally, not just materially or financially. In other words they've ALWAYS gotten their own way their whole life. I think it's especially true of many who grew up as the only child of weathy parents; I also think the family's political persuasion might have something to do with it as well. The famous conservative author and political pundit William F. Buckley, Jr., son of a wealthy family,(and a large family--10 children) was raised with almost every possible advantage. Buckley had a nauseating and overwhelming sense of himself as absolutely superior in every way to other people. Watching him being interviewed or debate the issues on talk shows was almost morbidly fascinating because his supercilious arrogance was so incredibly visible and apparent in his every word and action. He literally oozed an overbearing, haughty, patrician, lordly, seething contempt for almost everyone else around him, as if he could barely stand to tolerate their lowly existence in his presence. The manner in which he spoke and answered questions communicated an unmistakeable, palpable attitude of utter dismissal of what he seemed to perceive as the unbearable stupidity and ignorance of others. Buckley was very, very smart, all right, it was extremely difficult to lay a finger on him in political debate.( He had been captain of the debate team in his years at Yale). But his conviction that he was the smartest man in the world, was just not true. I think you could certainly say, as the Northern Plains Indians did of the white man, that Buckley was smart, but not wise. He evinced very little compassion for others,especially for the poor and disadvantaged, and among the wisest people, of any time or place, compassion is a true sign of real wisdom and real intelligence. To his credit, in his later life, his views moderated. Although he remained staunchly conservative-libertarian, he reversed himself on such issues as segregation and civil rights legislation, became a friend of Martin Luther King, and in general began to take a much more balanced view of things as he aged. But the old patrician superiority never quite left him, even though he poked fun at himself for it on occasion. Overall a thoroughly entertaining and fascinating, if irascible, person. But in his younger and middle years, Buckley was a pretty accurate example of the kinds of NE persona you're talking about. And he was, and remains, an actual icon and idol to a lot of people from that part of the country and similar background. These are people who don't just THINK they're better than you or I; they fucking KNOW they are. It can be pretty hard to take, all right. They can be very clique-ish; most of their friends are people like themselves. The rest of us, to them, are just so much riff-raff. And it doesn't bother them one whit to say so or to treat you that way. Like my Dad used to say, "Th' woods're full of 'em." But that's OK; let 'em have their little conceits, their yachts and expensive degrees, their country clubs, etc. Because this arrogance is a very revealing sign of what is actually a huge sense of insecurity and inadequacy. It's a paradox, but in truth, many people who've been given everything, have a terrible sense of inferiority because they've never had to do a thing to make their own way in the world. They have no idea of what it means to create their own lives or to have to struggle, work hard, and overcome obstacles to achieve their dreams. In fact many of them don't even HAVE dreams of their own, because there's nothing to struggle or work FOR; it's already been done for them. So, many of them have really no idea of who or what they are, or what they'd do if they had to fend for themselves. I think I mentioned this a little in one of my previous posts on this subject; how many "trustafarians" are pretty aimless and lost, never really knowing what to do with themselves. Not exactly an enviable life. So even the privileged are deserving of some compassion, along these lines. What appears to be so cushy and desirable from the outside, might be a pretty empty, bleak, and sad existence on the inside. I don't think I'd want to trade places with them. And at the same time, I have to say that some of these kinds of people I've met and gotten to know, are just fine, fine people in every way. It just all depends on how they were raised, the values and principles they were given, which in the long run are far more precious than any kind of material wealth or social standing and privilege. As one friend I met many years ago in Jackson Hole said when we were introduced, he joked about his background (he was a DuPont/ Rothschild--essentially, unlimited money)held out his hand saying,with a big grin, "Well yeah, I'm a rich kid--but please don't hold that against me". He was one of those guys you just like instantly, just quite simply one of the nicest, most genuine people I've ever known. He's used his wealth to do a great deal of good in the world, and prefers to keep well out of sight, behind the scenes. One of those donors to wonderful projects, humanitarian and environmental causes who's always listed as "Anonymous". It just all depends on the person. Try to never let the dollar signs, or the behavior, blind you to what the true value and character of a person might be on the inside. This guy you mention who passed judgment on your mixed climbing ability, even though he's never done any himself, sounds to me like he's pretty insecure, and probably wishes he had the guts to try to do what you have. So, if he's feeling inadequate that way, the easiest thing to do is not only to put you down, but to put down mixed climbing itself, as well. Very, very defensive behavior. As if to say well, mixed climbing is so easy, (meaning "inferior", and therefore beneath him) why even bother trying it? Really, how "quaint", how "pedestrian", how "provincial", how "proletarian". See what I'm driving at? I really feel kind of sorry for the guy, just from what you're describing. He's probably scared to death to do it, not so much of the climbing itself, but of being embarrassed by showing any lack of ability on his own part, more afraid of losing face than anything else. Like I say, I wouldn't care to trade places with him, and neither would you. Just let him be; maybe eventually he'll figure it out and someday he might turn out to be a pretty good guy. Probably gonna take awhile. It the meantime, just do your own climbing, take enjoyment and satisfaction from that, don't brag or even talk about what you've done, and just let the opinions of others roll off like water off a duck's back. Just keep working at it and keep your own counsel. It'll all level out further downstream.

Not so sure of this hypothesis. I have known several people who were not cured or dissuaded in any way from alchoholism simply by the use of acid. Of course it could probably be that they never took it with the idea or purpose of doing anything about their drinking in the first place. I also know at least one person who later became an alchoholic after several years of using acid and other hallucinogenics. But here again, I'm not sure you could clearly say that the acid had any relation to their drinking or not. It is interesting, though, that the precribed use of LSD seemed to be a more effective "treatment", if you will, than the other methods of therapy.

Is that Ed Cooper in the next to last photo?

Sounds like Canadian border guards to me, all right. Kudos for the snappy comebacks! Just the right degree of attitude, enough to put the guy in his place, not enough to get you arrested or denied entry. A fine line to walk with those jerks sometimes. At the same time, you have to feel a little sorry for people who've obviously never spent a single night under the stars out in the mountains. It's a lack of things like that that shrivel men's souls, and that's truly sad. BTW, for years (since 1974) one of my favorite places to stay in Kelowna has been the KOA camp north of town. Inexpensive, really nice friendly folks, clean, very quiet and woodsy.

Gain in elevation also translates to heavier snowfall. While higher winds at increased el. can reduce to some extent any consistent depth of snowpack, in so doing they can also cause more windloading on lee slopes, deeper drifts, larger, more unstable cornices, and lensed and cross-bedded layers. All that snow has to be redistributed somewhere. These conditions can make it very difficult to tell what's going on just by digging simple test pits. These are all complex and dangerous features which can increase the difficulty and hazard for safe routefinding. Windpack on windward slopes can cause hard crust which can set up dangerous conditions when poorly bonded with subsequent snowfall. And as PCG explained very well in his post above, colder conditions at higher el. can actually cause less consolidation and poor bonding between layers. All these factors combined can set up a real minefield. Furthermore, temps at upper elevations can be very tricky. Although generally you'd think it would get colder as you go higher, the opposite can also be true, depending on the time of day, and at times when lower elevations are cloud-covered and upper slopes are in the clear. South-facing slopes can be like a bake oven in clear weather, especially in calm conditions, and poorly bonded layers in the snowpack can approach a hair-trigger balance of adhesion as the sun-softened surface meltwater percolates down through the snowpack. Elevation is no guarantee of stability or safety. So, as a general rule, if avy conditions are unsafe from 5000 to 7000 el. they're only going to be more so the higher you go. Even if the upper snowpack were to be more stable, you'd still have to travel through the danger zone below 7000 both to get to it, and on the return back down. Thus you have a double exposure over the course of the day, and on the descent you're entering the danger zone at the worst time of day, as/after warming has further destabilized the already unsafe slopes. Additional conditions such as continuing snowfall, high wind, or warmer afternoon updrafts may only increase the risk. Not exactly a recipe for a safe trip. And, should there be an incident, you're putting your companions, and rescuers into a shooting gallery, not the most ethical or responsible choice.

Although not as long and sustained as Mt. Defiance,Mt. Hamilton is a good training run,( do it from the front--take the right-hand(East) trail where it divides); also Dog Mt., Table Mt. and Ruckel Ridge. A good double is to go do Munra Point(nice and steep), then go across the river to do Mt. Hamilton or Dog Mt., or do Hamilton and Dog the same day. You don't get the benefit of the altitude of Defiance, but if you carry a well-loaded pack and push the pace, you won't be lacking for conditioning. One other good stiff hike is the North Lake trail, which is pretty relentless for up and steep. It'll kill your quads and calves.

I spent about a year living in SW Alberta in 1973. Even back then, there was a sense that this kind of behavior on the part of the authorities lay not too far below the surface. While the great majority of ordinary everyday Canadians are great folks (and in the 70's the young people were every bit as friendly and laid back as you'd imagine) nonetheless average working people were really quite conservative. And there was a palpable sense, a definite atmosphere of restraint and caution anytime you were around the RCMP or other law enforcement. They were in general not the least bit friendly, usually pretty stern and taciturn. You knew for sure that you wanted to stay well within the law, out of their way, and not give even the slightest appearance of being in any way out of line. Licenses, papers, permits, what have you, always had to be in order, ready for inspection at a moment's notice. I was never really completely relaxed or comfortable the whole time. Also, especially in the 70's, the Border authorities were just awful; they could be extremely, ridiculously demanding, rude,overtly hostile and just plain damned mean. I once took the bus to BC to go climbing in the Bugaboos. At the border myself and a couple of others with longish hair and large packs were made to get off and go into the station, where we were strip-searched, and had to empty every last item out of our packs, even pouring out salt shakers, tea bags,and packets of instant oatmeal and Tang while they searched for drugs. They were also concerned that we had at least enough cash amounting to $100.00/day for the duration of our stay. They held that bus at the border for almost three hours. No drugs or other contraband were discovered. As I was being escorted back to the bus, I foolishly made the remark that I wondered just how many truly evil, criminal people were allowed to cross into Canada because they had enough money; I was almost arrested on the spot, but an older, wiser official intervened and said to the officer holding me, "See here now, that's quite enough." At least one of them had some sense. Even with all the Watergate and Vietnam crap going on in the US at the time, I was always much relieved to be back in our own country. I guess the evil you know is never as scary as the one you don't. Not to say that we don't have a hell of a mess in our society right now. The Patriot Act, no more habeus corpus, extraordinary rendition, indefinite detention of US citizen civilians without cause or charge. "Another fine mess you've got us into Ollie...". We're pretty much all the way back to pre-Magna Carta. Waterboarding? Ha. Expect to see the rack and wheel, drawing and quartering any time now...

He sounds like the last gasping breath of someone just disconnected from an iron lung. Or like the way Leo Kotke described HIS own voice: "Goose farts on a muggy day...".

Radio transmission can sometimes benefit from "bounce", where radio waves can be reflected by heavy cloud, or by ice crystals in the upper atmosphere, and there are other causes as well. It's not always completely dependent on line of sight or repeaters.

it sure doesn't help when you live in a political culture where the label of "flip-flopper" is instantly applied to anyone who dares to change their mind. One man's flip flopper is another man's pragmatist. hard-core folks on either side of the political divide seem to despise pragmatists though, and everyone's playing to their base - there's a pragmatic solution to just about every issue confronting us at the moment (debt, immigration, energy, healthcare, etc), and not a one has a chance in hell of going anywhere it seems Pretty much agree with your assessment of the general situation. But I think at least part of the reason for this lack of rational, bipartisan discussion, and what could otherwise be a pragmatic approach to solutions based in reality, is that the conservative war on truly public government, has resulted in serious damage at all levels, from federal to state and municipal. And one of the saddest victims, (and this was NOT unintentional) has been the destruction of the public schools. What we are witnessing is what happens when the last three generations have been so badly educated that a dangerously sizeable proportion of the populace doesn't know what "debate" really is or how to engage in it without digressing into personal attacks, have little understanding of even the most basic facts of the Bill of Rights or the Constitution, don't really have any skills in critical thinking, read and spell generally (if at all) at or well below the 6th grade level, and have come to believe that the clown shows, posturing and outrageous lying and distortion of fact seen and heard in the media IS, what journalism and politics really are. When large sections of the populace can be fooled into voting time and again against their own best social and economic interests, basic education is at fault. But this is all in line with conservative thinking on the "place" of the masses in society. And it is NOT necessarily the fault of the educators themselves. It goes all the way back to the battle between the Federalists (conservative) and the Jeffersonian democrats(moderate to liberal) during the drafting of the Constitution and Bill of rights. The Federalists did not believe that the ordinary masses should have any right to participate, other than very superficially, in the actual governing of the nation. The Electoral College, and many of it's rules, are a compromise to them. Many federalists felt that only landed gentry, slaveholders, and the educated should be able to vote at all. They believed that there should be an educated elite who would rule, and that the main, if not the only purpose for the existence of the masses, was to serve this ruling elite. On the other hand, the Jeffersonian democrats believed in, and trusted the innate ability of ordinary people, provided they had access to education, and the opportunity to better themselves, to govern wisely, and above all, fairly, given that they often would have had a more personal acquaintance with the injustices of poverty and economic servitude.(This was at a time when Indentured servitude and "impressment" were still a very common fact of life for the masses.) The very fact that any of the general populace was given the right to vote at all, is due to Jefferson. It took over 200 years to achieve full voting rights for all, and of course voter suppression is still a venal factor in every election. [An interesting side note is the way that conservatives have actually appropriated, to some extent, the Jeffersonian ideas of equal economic and social opportunity for all, as an excuse for the wealthy and powerful to grab as much of whatever they can, by any means necessary; thus we have "Citizens United" paying off the Supreme Court to rule that, yes, "corporations are people.".] Hard conservatives and neocons are still harking back to the Federalists. And their standard practice and policy has been to denigrate and denounce the viability and value of public government ("government is the problem") and public education (the teachers are stupid, curriculum is inadequate--[meaning not business-oriented enough; we need scientists and engineers, and shovelers,godammit, not dreamy artists or (God forbid!) THINKERS,]), and then, in concert with the "dumbing down" of curriculum and public media, set about to starve both government programs and public schools of funding. Then, when they inevitably fail, the conservative refrain is always, "See? We told you they don't work." Santorum, with three degrees, is just the latest example of the conservative hypocrisy of savaging public and higher education as "snobbery". (Gotta keep those masses down there, boy. Ah ya'll listenin' tuh me, theah, boy?) A well-orchestrated campaign of disinformation, financial starvation, the scapegoating of minorities and an ever-handy national enemy or two thrown in for good measure ("How dare you question or dissent the need to go to war!!"), and you wind up with what we are now seeing. Various reasons/excuses for environmental destruction, reduction/elimination of civil rights, elimination of worker benefits and union busting, much the same.Nor are the present-day Democrats without complicity and an equal share of fault in all this. What it has come down to is now well beyond mere conservatism or liberalism. Really, how quaint. The operative principle now is an ever-hardening amalgam of hypocrisy and greed, plutocracy, oligarchy. I'm not sure just what you might call it. But Lloyd Reynolds, my late, great professor at Reed, in his commencement speech in 1968, characterized it about as accurately as anyone I've ever heard; "Forward to the Tar Pits!! And don't you dare disturb our sleep!!"

Careful...after all, outer space exists because it's afraid to be on the same planet with Chuck Norris. If you have five dollars in your wallet, and Chuck Norris has five dollars in his wallet, Chuck Norris has more money than you do. If Chuck Norris has just one bullet left, and fires his gun in the general direction of hordes of attacking evil troops, they will all be killed instantly. Chuck Norris can kill ants with a magnifying glass...at night. Chuck Norris has to sleep with a night light on; not because he is afraid of the dark, but because the dark is afraid of him. (Fact) Chuck Norris has stated than Texas should secede from the Union, and he should be the President of Texas.

Hey Keenwesh, An old buddy of mine named Greg Keeler lives in Missoula and teaches at the u of Montana. Gregs a fine poet and songwriter and did an album some years back called "Songs of Fishing, Sheep and Guns in Montana", which I bet youd enjoy. Very funny stuff. Nice sketch on the cover of a cowboy sitting in the bar with his arm around his sheep, whisky bottles and shot glasses, etc. Not sure if its still in print, first came out in cassette, not sure if he's ever done a CD.

How would we view your gallery? Did a search under Member Galleries on this site and no results turned up. I do have a friend who lost a pair of fat skis a couple of years ago.

You dont exactly have to be a fungus to utilize plain cellulose. Milk cows, for example, can actually make milk out of things like old shredded wrapping paper and newspaper, but not cardboard because of the glues. While not too many dairies actually feed their cows like that(well at least,for all we know)many dairy cattle are regularly fed silage, which is simply the leftover gleanings and stubble/straw from cut-over hayfields. Usually harvested in the fall well after the last cutting of hay, and before fall rains begin, its well dried out, and has very little concentrated nutrition. Its stored in vertical round silos, or some just use long trenches up to eight or 10 feet deep, and covered with heavy tarps or black plastic. Alfalfa fields actually can provide pretty good nutritive silage, but grass hays such as timothy and fescue are mostly just fiber/cellulose. Nonetheless its a major winter feed for dairy cows in the western states, and some feed it to beef cattle as well in tight times.Pretty amazing what the dairy cows can do with not much.

Viewing/reading this NWAC analysis, I find it very interesting/ that the slide actually began at the top of the chute and at least partially in the trees, and from the color photo, evidently continued down through a very narrow chute, but still involving adjacent timbered terrain until the last open runout area. Here again the commonly accepted idea that staying in the trees is a good safety practice in avalanche-prone terrain, is very sadly and definitely disproved. There must have one hell of a snow-load on top of that weak bond of old surface hoar. The description at the beginning of the article certainly tells the story. I'm wondering if, to help prevent ( I say "help" because, barring outright strictly enforced* closure of a given area, youll probably never completely prevent) such accidents in the future, the NWAC avy and weather forecasts and snowpack descriptions could be somehow either televised or displayed on monitors at the ski area where anyone thinking about entering the backcountry couldnt fail to see them. Maybe similar to the screens displaying flight schedules at the airport. *(and Im not sure just how you'd do THAT, either)

Many thanks for your cleanup efforts, Dan. I wonder how long it's been like that; I haven't been up to Erie for quite a few years, but it used to be one of my favorite places to practice when I lived up there. Really sad to hear of it being trashed like that, I can remember when about all you might see was an occasional Mountain Bar wrapper. It's good to know that there are still folks like yourself around with the willingness to put in the hard work and time to keep it safe and looking nice. Maybe it's already been thought of, or done, but perhaps there needs to be, at minimum, an organized yearly group/communal cleanup effort on a weekend, make an overnight party out of it. Mt. Erie has too much history and value to the climbing community to let it be ruined. I live in Portland now, but I'd be willing to come up for an event like that. It's like what SOLV does with the annual beach cleanup on the entire length of the Oregon coast. Thousands of people come out and collect many tons of junk to keep the beaches safe and pristine. Seems like we ought to be able to gather at least a few dozen folks to spruce up Erie. Anyone else?

Man; very interesting to see that ratt 'chere in the good 'ole supposedly "enlightened" and "progressive" Pac. NW, Washington is one of the worst, and Oregon not all that far behind, in terms of income tax disparity/ inequality.

Thanks for the update/clarification. I had read earlier in one of the news reports that the rating for the day and area was "extreme", but the media can almost be depended on to get things crosswise, especially when it has anything to do with mountaineering. That said, I'd have to admit that there's enough of a difference in perception between "considerable" and "extreme", that some people might, especially out on the slope, feel safer making a choice to traverse a questionable, yet familiar route. For myself, "considerable" is already too close for comfort, and would likely be a rating that would encourage me to either stay out of the backcountry that day, or to choose a known,proven route on safe terrain. Once again, the person killed in an avalanche on a day of "considerable" or "moderate" risk/probability is still just as dead as someone killed on a day rated "high" or "extreme". Regarding the efficacy of the avalanche airbag device, I just watched the video posted above, and it's pretty impressive. They definitely seem to be on to something. If this thing works to keep you up and out of grinding, smashing, crushing tumult of the chaotic mixing bowl in the main deep flow of the debris, then that's a major breakthrough. There's still a little matter of speed and dangerous terrain/fall exposure to take into account, but to simply prevent being buried is no small thing.

Wow. Excellent article, thanks so much for the post. This ought to be required reading for not only beginning climbers and skiers but for anyone and everyone at all levels in alpinism and similar pursuits.