Juan

Hey Richard: I'm glad that two kids aren't slowing you down. We just had a third son and it remains to be seen how this plays out. I was thinking of our Goode trip/Logan attempt just this evening. That was fun. Good luck this time with Logan. I dont' think snow is in the cards . . . Cheers, John Sharp

Way to go Robert. Jim Nelson, Bob Davis and I sort of co-wrote the route description in Selected Climbs II, and it sounds like it was more or less what you found. Jim and Peter wrote the history part. The piton you saw was indeed Jim's, and has been there since our trip July 19-20, 1999. We did the rappel option, but the gully had hard snow to the top, so it was fine. The upper gully was maybe four ft. wide. So cool. As for the climbing you did to the left, we said 5.3 because Fred did, I think. Several people have said it's harder. It looked harder, to be honest, but we could only see so much. At our high point, we stopped and headed down after 12 hours of climbing, but without going to the true summit. It still kills me that my name is not in the register. We sat around at about 5:30 p.m. on the plateau just below the summit and wished we had a cell phone as it was obvious we would be overdue. You've all read that story by now. The whole helicopter thing. As for the heather, we didn't use crampons, but did sling a few scrub cedars and Jim placed one piton in a rock outcrop. I have a few pictures looking down at Bob. It's pretty steep. I really want to go back, especially after reading your report. Keep up the good work. John Sharp

Russ: Were you one of the 40 or so people I passed on my way down Friday afternoon? There were some guys with pickets, ropes, helmets, big steel axes, and huge packs humping up to Boulder Basin when I was on my way down. I told everyone who would listen to take only one axe, ski poles, and crampons on the climb. I climbed it solo on Friday. Kind of a 40th birthday present to myself. Left Bellevue at 4:15 a.m., left the car at 6:30 a.m., got to the top of the mountain via the Shitcum Glacier at 1:45, and back to the car at 7:45 after a 45 soak in the manky hot springs. Great, if hot, weather. Sorry and very surprised you guys had clouds and rain on Sat. Cheers, John Sharp Bellevue

Matt: I asked Doug to bring a camera but he didn't. So no photos. They'd be pretty boring anyway. It's not a real photogenic route in the summer. Erik: Can you go out Friday??? Call me at (425) 765-7747 John

Doug Walker, Craig McKibben, Sam Shabb and I climbed the std. Dry Creek Route on Big Four on Sat. 7/12. The climb went fine once we found the Dry Creek on the way in. On the way out, we followed heavy pink and orange flagging all the way down the Dry Creek bed, through the woods, and to the creek just below the road. We popped out on the road about 50 ft. down hill (toward town) from the small 27 mile marker at the edge of the road. There is a log crossing at the creek at that point, more or less straight down hill from the marker. Once you cross the creek on your way to the mountain, walk up-stream about 75 ft. until you see the flagging "highway." Follow it to the Dry Creek bed and then proceed to the base of the route. From there, it is just as Beckey shows it in the green book. When you get to about 5,500 ft. at the top of the upper snowfield, head to the notch above you via reddish rock (3rd class to maybe 5.0 in places -- we didn't rope up). Once you hit the upper ridge, the summit is the second hump to your left. There is a damp register. The route offers brush, cedar, loose scree, some pretty good rock, and snow. It's worthwhile for anyone who wants to tag Big Four. It's easier and safer than any of the N. Face routes in summer or winter, and no doubt less work than the N.W. Ridge route. It took us 5:10 from the car to the top, and we returned to the car in 10 hrs. total round trip. We took crampons, two 30m ropes, two pickets, one light axe each, and two small racks. Crampons are not strictly required now, but you should at least take aluminum crampons later in the season as the neve will harden. The ropes were tied together for two rappels on the descent. Pickets and rock gear stayed in the pack. Helmets are a must. There is plenty of water along the way. It's a pretty good route, but a bit of a grunt. The well-flagged trail to the base makes life much easier. I suspect Dallas Kloke's group did this in May. Way to go. Cheers, John Sharp

Jesus, Chuck. Just do the North Ridge in a day. My wife did the West Ridge with Craig McKibben and Doug Walker in a day in '99. She was home for dinner. You can certainly pull the North in day. Descend the Cascadian and stop fooling around with these other ideas. =;-) Juan

Fleby and Josh: Did you make it to the top? What time? We were going to lower GU, but didn't have enough rope. Great day to be on top of Stuart. Cheers, John Sharp

Erik: Sorry to have blown your cover, Dude. Do you have some of my gear or are you referring to my notable lack of doing anything in the mountains this winter? Listen, I soloed Granite. In winter. In high wind. So bad ass. The two things that keep getting in my way are work and family. Go figure. Have you tried the work thing? =;-) Anyway, getting back to the thread: As for one-day trips that could be two, I love doing that. Whether it's Maude or Daniel or Colchuck or Outer Space or Dreamer or whatever, it's great to move fast with a minimum of gear and to need only one day. But of course camping in some wild place such as the Pickets is equally awesome. My point in starting this thread was really to focus some attention on the reports of climbers who appeared -- by their own admissions -- to be taking too much risk. Part of the equation was the one-day nature of their efforts, but that alone was not what concerned me. It was the combination of factors, any one of which would lead to tragedy. Having just lost a dear friend and client in the same avalanche that killed Ron Gregg, and attending multiple events/services and seeing his family, wife, and kids, I am now more aware of the fragile balance between good conditions and bad, acceptable risk and too much, and life and death. It's a fine line, but I don't believe any climb is worth risking preventable damage. It's turning into an interesting thread, though we still don't know why Colin is so good. Maybe he can chime in. John

Me too. Just ask Erik about our day trip up the N. Face of Maude two summers ago when my Bellevue house wife kicked his fat ass. =;-) But I also think DPS is right. It's all Colin's fault. As for taking novices out, I wholeheartedly agree, and try to do it at least once a year. Hell, I took Miles Smart up Mt. Daniel when he was 14, so I should get some credit around here. Cheers to all, Mr. Conservative

I'm sitting here at work, reading TRs, worrying about climbers I have never met. This is because two reports I have read today involved people doing hard routes in the Colchuck Lake area, in a long day, dropping gloves, and expressing to us the very serious concerns they had as they were climbing. It worries me. I'm all for pushing it, and I've had my share of moments when fear made me want to barf. But it concerns me that so many people seem to be jumping on the hard snow and ice routes and leaving so little margin for safety. This will sound like the tall guy in the t.v. show "Hill Street Blues," but I do hope people are more careful out there. Anyway, that's my thought for the day. John Sharp

The three times I've climbed the NW Face, we were out in the middle of it. Twice coming out from the NBC, and once after coming up from below after crossing near the Sandpiper. I've yet to encounter slabby rock or 60- degree terrain, though we did stick the axe into some frozen grass clumps on the face last year. Anyway, I have no doubt that Triple Couloirs is a much more difficult climb. John

Josh: I wish I knew. At this point in my not-so-illustrious climbing career, Triple Couloirs would probably just make me cry, and my wife would call me irresponsible. I should have done it years ago, but never did. But the NBC is not too steep is acceptable. I wasn't close to scared soloing it in May a couple years ago, though it was in more challenging shape last Memorial Day weekend when a partner and I did it. It's a great moderate in my opinion, and when Jim and Peter's revised Vol. 1 comes out with that route, it will become even more popular. Cheers, Sharp

Cool. I saw other thread after I typed. Thanks for the info. It's a great route that is getting popular. John

Sorry to be vague. What I meant was the approach that is typically used to access McMillan Spire and Inspiration Peak vs. the one I think you are describing. The one you used is the one Jim suggests for Terror, and would eliminate climbing the Barrier from Terror Basin. Right? Thanks much, John

You da man, Dan. Was Sergio up there? Sharp

Did any of you who went up there need/use snow shoes? I'm thinking of going up later this week to the NBC, one of my fave routes. I assume you still have to walk the whole road. In the couloir itself, was the narrowest section in the middle just snow, or has any ice formed? Rocks showing there? Its been different each of the three times I've been there. Thanks for the beta! John Sharp

What a heartbreak. We plan to do this trip in mid-July, so we hope the gully is passable. As long as we're discussing this, do you recommend the std. Goodell Creek aproach, then the Barrier, or the one in Jim's second book that takes you across Terror Creek? When we climbed the Chopping Block in July 1987, I don't recall the Barrier being a big deal. And I hear that the Goodell Creek approach in general is much more obvious now. What would you recommend? Thanks much, John

Thanks very much Lowell. I had a feeling that would be the case. Jim's book describes it as 3rd class, but refers to mid-fifth elsewhere in the write-up. No mention of a rack. I got Alan's e-mail address today, and will check with him too. Did Jim tell me that you went in one time in late summer and found no way to get onto the rock due to a moat, or am I making that up? Cheers and thanks, John

Brad and I will be taking the Tour of the Ancients in that direction this summer, we hope. We hope to have as much fun as we had on Fury and Luna last summer. Juan

Who has climbed this face? The route descriptions suggest that the original 1961 line is 3rd and 4th class, with a bit of 5th. Kearney describes a line that may be the 1984 Stoddard line, more on the left side. He says 5.7/5.8; Fred says 5.8+. Obviously, lugging a real rack in there would only be smart if it was needed. We will need the room for whiskey. Can anyone comment on this? Colin? Lowell? Thanks much, John Sharp

This is pretty good for a news report, based on the actual report (including pictures and diagrams) that BobInc. and I and three others were given last Thursday night from three of the four survivors, who are good friends. A service and wake were held for our friend James Schmid this weekend. Standing room only service and wonderful remarks. Bob did an excellent job explaining the accident to the audience at the service. This is a tough one to say the least, and provides pause for reflection. John Sharp

Hey folks: I was off line this weekend and totally missed the news reports and this TR until today. As a three-time loser on N. Face of Big Four in winter, and a veteran of a fairly well-known non-rescue by helicopter after climbing J'berg N.E. Butt in July '99, I think this story is a classic. I'll bet you boys had pine needles in your undies after that much thrutching around. I'm glad someone climbed that stupid mountain this winter. And for what it is worth, I would think a grade III+/IV rating would be about right for any of the routes on the N. Face in winter in average conditions. Cheers, and be safe. John Sharp

Colin, you punk. My niece Kelly told me you had a broken arm after being hit by a car on the way to school. What gives? Also, who exactly hung the dope leaf flag at your high school? Word is it would be pretty hard to climb up there. Do you know anything about this? Way to go on the climb, both of you. My weekend included legos, playdough, and Red Robin. But whatever. Cheers, John Sharp

Alpine K: Given your high level of confidence in your admitted generalization, I must assume that you've ridden in enough helicopters to determine that the great majority of your fellow passengers don't know "jack shit" about avalanche safety. Is that the case? Or have you in some other way reached this absolute certainty? Juan

AlpineK: Please don't assume that people who helicopter ski don't know "jack shit" about snow and avalanche conditions and avalanche rescue. The time I did it with friends in B.C., it was the 18th trip for their group. They have been to India, New Zealand, Canada, and Alaska. Most of them are professional ski instructors. Many first descents among them. Serious skiers who know more than many skiers. It is wrong to assume that people who can afford to ride in helicopters all day for a week are inept. Some undoubtedly are, but certainly not all. And, of course, the unfortunate group of backcountry skiers that is the subject of this thread, like the group that suffered three casualties in Canada last year (I think it was last year) and the group of Mountaineers that had an accident near Crystal this year, suggest that plenty of backcountry skiers (i.e. not "helicopter skiers") make fatal mistakes as well. It happens. Hopefully everyone can learn from this tragedy. John Sharp