mtnnut

Summited Monday. There had been new snow deposits from thundershowers on Sunday. The new snows actually made the footing a little less secure, since loose snow and crampons don't always get along well together. While going up the steps were sort of breaking out at times, and coming down required perhaps a little kicking of a step rather than just stomping down the points. The crampons were useful to have on to a lower elevation than I would have expected, due to feeling a little crispiness underneath the new snow (the sort of thing that an un-cramponed boot sole might not have stuck to or dug a large enough step while plunge-stepping to ensure a secure footing). So, not so firm as your rumors were alluding to, but I could see how it would have been above about 12,500 feet or so prior to the snow. Likely it will get back to some of that firmness later, but for now, the warm temps will make it annoyingly soft on the descent. Best to try to get down earlier to avoid post holing. The recent snow might also glaze up some with the warm daytime temps and clear nights, so that could influence how "icy" it feels on the climb up.

Yep, Kool-Aid showed up in 1927. more than you'd ever want to know about Kool-Aid Folks years from now will likely have never heard of Gu.

Check your Personal Messages. I found and saved a posting by "mneagle" that he posted last year. Unfortunately it doesn't seem to be on the CC.com site anymore (the search engine didn't produce it). He has a more recent post that is still on the site, but it might not be exactly have the sort of info you were looking for: http://www.cascadeclimbers.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=002356

For a direct link to the article: http://www.tribnet.com/opinion/0611b701.html

I was down a couple of years ago in the month of August. Not sure if we were just lucky or not, but the weather was quite good. Had only about 2-3 days of precip the entire month. In the early part of July there may be the remainder of the seasonal moisture hitting Peru, though I’m not sure if it has enough strength to reach Bolivia. Sometimes even when you don't have a weather system strong enough to produce moisture, you occasionally can get clouds that will wrap around the peaks. This didn't happen to us on any summit days, but if it was a day you needed to navigate with that could be a problem. Given the status of the maps for the area, you kinda want to see where you are going. One day when we were trekking over a pass and down to an unfamiliar valley, we did so in clouds, and it made it harder to join up with a trail that we expected to find on the other side. My guess is that these sorts of clouds would be found at middle elevations, and the summits of the big peaks would likely stick up through them. As far as temperatures go, it isn’t going to be as cold as Rainier in the winter. Maybe preparing for winter camping somewhere between Paradise and Muir would be sufficient gear, though you won’t be needing to camp on snow except perhaps for your highest camps. Base camp in Condoriri would get water to freeze at night, but I doubt it got colder than mid-teens (Fahrenheit). Daytime would find travel at that base camp elevation could be done with just a mid-layer or perhaps with fleece on (probably around 40-50 -ish degrees). If you are planning higher camps for some of the big peaks, you can sort of extrapolate. A puffy jacket for the evenings is a good idea, but whether you go so far as to take fleece or down pants is up to you. You could probably make it work with layers, like long underwear or expedition underwear along with something equivalent to a Schoeller pant (plus wind/weather shell). The wind surely can blow, and would blow more if you had a higher, more exposed camp. I actually had a mediocre three season tent, and the weather never really challenged it, but then we didn’t camp in super high or exposed locations either. To adjust for altitude, you can use the rules of thumb from meteorology regarding the rate at which air cools with elevation: 3.3 degrees Fahrenheit per 1000 feet for moist air, as much as 5.5 degrees per 1000 feet for dry air. (the air down there would generally be considered dry) I had similar questions before going down there, the guidebooks don't seem to pass this sort of information for clothing planning along. Since we are talking about guidebooks, be wary of Yossi Brain's books. The times may be a little aggressive (shorter than you may choose to do them), and the technical difficulty may not be accurate. As an example, the scramble down Tarija en route to Pequeno Alpamayo is listed as something like 5.2, such that we would have guessed that a rappel would have been in order, but instead it was more like class 3+. I can't say whether the ratings always err in favor of claiming it to be harder than it really is, just recognize that you can't take them for face value. Perhaps the ratings were influenced by someone wearing crampons on rock? Oh yeah, one other tidbit. The compass needle dips down there to line up with the magnetic pole. What that means is you won't be able to hold your compass flat and have it free swinging. The manufacturers would claim that you need an "international" compass to compensate for this, and if you plan on doing much navigation in the southern hemisphere you might consider it, otherwise, you can kinda make do with a compass designed for the northern hemisphere. I guess whether you would want one would depend on how much in the way of detailed maps you might want to purchase or use. Hope that helps. I loved the trip down there and hope to get back again someday.

The Potable Aqua brand does have a shelf life. I think it even says on the package, but one year after you initially open it is what they recommend. Even at that, you need to screw the lid pretty tight to keep water and moisture out. I don't think you have the same effect on crystalline iodine, but that isn't the sort of think you generally get by purchasing at an outdoor store. Not sure how you can distinguish the amount of water that can get in there and still have the product work correctly. [ 06-07-2002, 12:46 AM: Message edited by: mtnnut ]

The REI location is the office of the Forest Service Information Center. You know, that desk off on the side next to the books and maps department? By having that office there, REI unwittingly puts themselves in a position of having protests staged nearby. Probably something nobody thought about at the time the store was built. But there wasn't as much to protest about back then either. [ 06-05-2002, 02:21 PM: Message edited by: mtnnut ]

Sounds likely, anybody heard anything else? Inquiring minds want to know what route they were on.

The KUOW show is being broadcast at "the noon hour". Not sure the exact starting time that means (sounds like they actually start it noon). It is a "Talk of the Nation" program, part of NPR. And regarding denying access to gumbies, there have been earlier reports listed in Accidents in North American Mountaineering where they have escorted at least one climber of "diminished mental capacity" back down from the Ingraham area. He was apparently climbing solo (which probably gave them a good excuse) wearing a construction hard hat and work boots, if I remember right. I seem to recall they released him to the custody of his wife. [ 06-03-2002, 11:43 AM: Message edited by: mtnnut ]

The Sunday edition of the Portland Oregonian had a pretty lengthy write up on the accident, including a photo taken minutes before the fall (supposedly). Besides straightening out the chronology and some details, which hopefully they took the time to get right, they also had some quotes from Forest Service officials. The principal reason for the South Side closure is for collection of aircraft parts and investigation of the crash. They didn't define the length of time, but it could go for as long as a week. There was a mention that if the closure went very deep into June, that the climbing guide service might lose enough revenue from their peak season to put them out of business. Is there only one down there? The only one that I've heard of is Timberline Alpine Guides. The reason they closed the other routes above that 9000 foot or so elevation is stated as to prevent climbers from climbing harder routes to get to the summit. The implication is that they don't want people that would ordinarily be climbing a moderate route to get in over their heads. The quote was something to the effect of 'the last thing we need is another accident'. While you can imagine their point of view, I'm sure this doesn't sit well with experienced climbers that are concerned about possible future regulation on Hood.

AllYouCanEat: was that warning something that you got during the winter? If so, it was probably just warning you that they lock the gate at night.

Duct tape doesn't last, and leaves unsightly gummy adhesive residue. For more attractive looking repair, follow along: Decide whether it is long enough that you need structural strength to hold it together. If so, go to step 1B Step 1A: for small tears that aren't too ragged, simply apply some transparent tape to one side of the tear to join the edges (Scotch brand works fine for this). Step 1B: For tears that need structural reinforcement or are too ragged to join cleanly with just a hunk of transparent tape, use the Gore-tex branded repair patches. These have a pretty sturdy adhesive. Step 2: apply a bead of Aquaseal (made by McNett) to the tear itself. This stuff is made to repair wetsuits, so it is quite durable. As an alternate, you can use SeamGrip made by the same folks, which is the same composition but thinned down. It may not stay put as well as a result, so might require more applications to get enough to be strong enough to hold the fabric together. Step 3: remove the transparent tape after the Aquaseal has cured. Notes: 1) Masking or duct tape could be used as your temporary tape instead, but you risk leaving white adhesive behind when you remove the tape. 2) If you needed to use the Gore-tex branded repair tape, to really ensure adhesion you could press firmly on the edges of the tape with a warm iron to help the adhesive really penetrate. Or, you could run some SeamGrip along the edges of the patch. Also, even though you used the repair tape, you can make it stronger by either applying Aquaseal to the opposite side of the tear, or another piece of Gore-tex repair tape (ends up as a less flexible piece of fabric). 3) Since the transparent tape is largely behaving as a dam for the Aquaseal, you can choose whether to have the Aquaseal applied to the outside of the garment or the inside. If outside, you are sure that all the frayed fabric edges are anchored down (the transparent tape would have initially been applied to the inside). For an even more invisible repair, which works best with clean slices that can be joined easily, attach the transparent tape to the outside and the Aquaseal to the inside. Be observant of how smooth the Aquaseal lays down, since this repair may be resting against your skin.

I thought that restriction only applied to people that were using the guide service. For the guide service, they have this covered in that they now provide transportation from the "Bunkhouse" outside the park boundary (undoubtedly for an additional fee). Checking the Park website, it would appear that this doesn't yet cover the general public, although they have been discussing doing that at some point. They wouldn't be able to do it yet since they don't have the infrastructure built in to provide shuttle service for the general public yet. http://www.nps.gov/mora/climb/climb.htm

By the way, nobody seems to have pointed out that we are actually talking about East Wilmans Spire. Bring bikes even if you have to walk them on the way in. The glide out goes very fast. The possibility of camping at the townsite isn't particularly aesthetic, though you might be able to find something near the river. Plus, the private property holders are likely still hanging out at the townsite. If so, they might have a recommendation. Glacier Basin is nice, though you will be bringing all your overnight stuff up more elevation to get there. It is sort of a scramble, so newbies with full packs might push their comfort level a little. I had heard that rumor a few years back that a ledge or something fell off of the route so it might technically be a little harder than what is written in the Beckey Guide. I'm pretty sure the rumor was that it affected the route itself, not the approach (though if it was the ledge that traversed from the notch, that could be believable). How much harder, hopefully someone will report, but prepare yourself if you are taking a newbie. Oh, yes, and one other thing, the ascent from the basin to the notch to gain access to the spire has relatively steep hardpan that is hard to kick steps into. The approach is much easier if you have snow on that slope for footsteps. You probably want to do it by perhaps mid-to late June if you want to ensure that you get snow for that slope. That of course means ice axes too.

I agree, hiding behind an alias when you are caught isn't likely to cause political change. I can't say I trust the legal system either, since I'm not a lawyer. But every fee paid is recorded as a vote in favor of the Fee Demo program. Only by not paying (and I guess to be recorded as such you probably have to get caught) can you register a vote against. So I guess my theory is you can ensure you don't have to pay a penalty in the courts yet get recorded as a vote against Fee Demo by giving a fake name when you get caught. One of the things that bothers me about this situation is that you are expected to get a permit (during the core season), which in this case is supposed to limit the quantity of people, and if it were done in a Forest Service office rather than a commercial retail establishment, could provide the opportunity for something useful like low-impact travel advice or the like. But then, on top of it, they want you to pay a fee. So, those who don't want to pay a fee can't get a permit. I'm not sure what sort of official penalties there would be for not paying a fee, but there are established precedents for not having permits.

bobbyperu: please check your Personal Messages on this board Thanks

By paying the fee you become part of the problem. Seems like the only way you get to express disapproval is to not pay the fee. Actually, it might be a good idea to memorize the address of a forest service office as your fake address that you can be prepared to give (just to annoy them more if they decide to try to follow up). They have no right to have you produce identification, so they are really powerless to do anything about it. For best results, don't hang around your car in the parking lot when you come back down, since in some areas with the forest trail fees they try to get the idea of a "ticket" to stick by accosting the driver when they return to the car. Of course it stinks that the 'bilers aren't charged, but in reality it is the fee for climbers that should be dropped. Think about it, what do you get for that fee? The Monitor Ridge trail was put in by volunteers. Snow covered travel this time of year needs no trail anyway. Then think about the more than a million dollar visitor facility on the other side of the mountain, where if they comply, the visitors are supposed to pay half the amount as the climbers to experience the interpretive displays in the building or driving around on the roads.

Megamids flap more than any tent I've ever seen. I don't know why folks think they are so great. They take quite a bit of staking force to get them tight. If you really wanted a tent coverage, the VE-25 fly would do better. I think you need some grommeted straps (used for the bottom ends of the poles) to keep the sides from spreading so that you get the same interior volume that you would if you were also using the body. These were typically sold with the tent, but if you've misplaced yours, they might be able to sell replacements out of the North Face store or the warranty department at the company headquarters. I don't think the VE-25 has changed in geometry over the years much, so new parts should fit an older tent. Bivi sacks are much better though, since there is no loose fabric to flap in the wind, plus lighter overall. Takes a little more care to make a sheltered area to operate the stove though. If you are inclined to go regardless of the weather, then perhaps consider the VE-25 fly, otherwise, the bivi sacks make more sense. Keep in mind there isn't a huge amount of room at Thumb Rock too (of level ground anyway), and bivi sacks have a smaller footprint so you can carve out a spot amongst the other campers that you will likely be finding there. [ 05-08-2002, 09:23 PM: Message edited by: mtnnut ]

quote: Undiscovered even by the early Conquistadors, Machu Picchu remained hidden from human knowledge until 1911. You read it here first folks, apparently the Incas have been determined to be not human. You think that dude Erich Von Daniken (of "In search of Ancient Astronauts" fame) was on to something?

I just started reading some of the GMP that "Peter Puget" provided the link to above. Usually, a glance at the "preferred alternative" gives you an idea what they are hoping to be able to do. There are some things in here that I bet most climbers would find of interest. Among them:* Allowing the Carbon River Road to be closed after the next erosion event with non-motorized uses remaining (hiking and biking). * Implementing a policy requiring overnight climbers to take a shuttle to Paradise under peak congestion periods (this shows up on the "Preferred" use map) * Discussion about access for the Westside Road. Plans other than the "Preferred" option actually talk about shuttles and opening it back up to private high clearance vehicles. * A $5 million "Welcome Center" along State Highway 706. Not so much that it detracts from the climber/outdoor experience, but it sure siphons away money. If you weren't paying for things like this, maybe there would be enough money so that "summit fees" wouldn't be asked. * Messing around with the parking at Mowich Lake. Closing the existing lot, establishing more spaces, but 1/2 mile back from the lake and alongside the road. Just a few observations. Read it for yourself http://www.nps.gov/planning/mora/finalgmp/home.htm

Unless you like comforts and feeling like you never left the states, get out of Cancun as fast as you can. Not too many hike along the beach there in the regions south of Playa Del Carmen and Tulum, they tend to hang around whatever attraction has been built at spur roads that lead to the beach. Hiking or camping between these spur roads is one way to dodge the masses. There is a long beach south of Tulum that eventually takes you to a nature preserve at Punta Allen. I don't think there are public busses that run all the way to Punta Allen, but there are outfits that run day tours. If you aren't in a hurry, there are public busses that run from Cancun down to the townsite of Tulum (which is inland from the beach) and further south toward Belize, but on a route away from the coast south of Tulum. Getting to the beach at Tulum might involve a hike, hitchhiking, or taxi from the townsite. First class busses tend to go to scheduled stops, second class busses will stop pretty much anywhere, so takes longer. For instance, you might be able to get dropped off at the ruins for Tulum on a second class bus, but a first class bus probably only stops at the townsite, which is further south. A second class bus goes from Tulum townsite to Coba. You don't have to rent a car if you can afford the time to work out the local transportation. For a pricey amusement park atmosphere you can see Xcaret. I saw the area in its natural state before it was developed, so found it to be a quite overwhelming and Disneylandish. Not much remains of the natural setting. If you do bother to go, do the swimming trip through the caves (either with or without snorkel gear). A nicer, though still touristy, public snorkeling venue is Xel Ha. If you want to try scuba, try places like Cozumel or Xcalak.If you are into snorkeling, here are some tips: * Bring a shirt to swim in for sun. Easy for us pasty white Washingtonians to get a nasty burn very quickly. Also, in an environmental move, the public snorkeling venues of Xel Ha and Xcaret don't let you use your normal sunscreens there for concern over what washes off and could damage the fish and ecosystem of these inlets. They will sell you an eco-friendly version, though it isn't cheap.* If you are doing a trip that is trying to avoid the touristy locales, consider bringing your own snorkel stuff. It largely is only available to rent at the public snorkeling venues. There are many other places along the coastline that offer worthy snorkeling, so if you have your own, you can do it anywhere. Tulum as a ruin site has a pretty location, but isn't very large. Best to see it early in the day or late, as it is popular with the day tours coming down from Cancun. Coba is interesting since they still are working on exposing what is there (the jungle kinda took over when the Mayans left). Larger structures to see at Chichen Itza, similarly large structures with more ornate rock carvings at Uxmal (south of Merida). The Mexican tourism development folks call much of the area south of Cancun the "Riviera Maya". They have ongoing plans to continue developing it, so see it while there are still some natural beach lands remaining.

The final release version of Opera 5.0 for Mac seems to render things fine.

spelling correction police here. Actually the spelling in spanish is "nadie" for no one. Regarding the original question, more information about what kind of climbing you want to do could help generate some responses.

Since nobody has mentioned it yet, it doesn't read properly in Netscape Communicator. Photos are covering up text.

I don't tend to take a filter for most of the Cascades. If I know I will be in the lowlands, I might consider using something, but usually I'll bring enough water to get me started toward the high country. Many of the long approaches in the Olympics put you in the valley floor, further subjecting you to runoff from fauna or people upstream. I tend to gather water from streams that come off of the sides of the valley that don't have lakes above. I get a little more paranoid about water from desert sources in Utah, however. All the runoff either sits in pools for an undetermined duration or can be easily contaminated by the wildlife and people that are trying to find it. Filters are nice in the desert so that you don't have to wait for the cure time needed by chemicals to be able to drink. I don't know about Crypto specifically, but iodine kills the nasties that filters can't get in third world environments, so why not just use iodine if you are really concerned? Otherwise, I don't bother filtering.